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Post by emily445455 on Jun 5, 2009 11:34:28 GMT -5
Lol Joey, you crack me up. Right to the point.
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Post by watchman on Jun 5, 2009 12:00:18 GMT -5
Oh, and Genesis 37 is already explained as it talking about Joseph's relatives being subject to "him" (the eleven stars are his brothers literally). In The Book of Revelation, those 12 Stars are The 12 Apostles (who are the only ones mentioned in the entire chapter. Israel is never mentioned in Chapter 12. (Rev 12:10-11 is talking about those who were being persecuted, The Apostles who were spreading the Gospel and who were martyred for doing so, save John who was writing the Book of Revelation) The woman is clothed with Jacob, with Rachael at her feet, and crown with the 12 tribes, that is Israel plain and simple
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Post by Cepha on Jun 5, 2009 12:17:23 GMT -5
Oh, and Genesis 37 is already explained as it talking about Joseph's relatives being subject to "him" (the eleven stars are his brothers literally). In The Book of Revelation, those 12 Stars are The 12 Apostles (who are the only ones mentioned in the entire chapter. Israel is never mentioned in Chapter 12. (Rev 12:10-11 is talking about those who were being persecuted, The Apostles who were spreading the Gospel and who were martyred for doing so, save John who was writing the Book of Revelation) The woman is clothed with Jacob, with Rachael at her feet, and crown with the 12 tribes, that is Israel plain and simple Israel is "clothed" with Jacob with Racheal at her feet? Why is Jacob clothing Israel? What does that mean? Israel is stepping on it's own mother? Why is Israel stepping on it's own mother (which in scripture means conquest or vanquishment as when enemies are "put under" one's feet)? This is what you believe? But that scripture is explained as it talking about submisssion to Joseph (which coincidentally is exactly what would happen). In other words, there are two seperate meanings to one prophecy? Or, it didn't mean what was said that it mean later in that scripture (about submission to Joseph)?
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Post by watchman on Jun 5, 2009 12:44:54 GMT -5
I didn't say stepping, your twisting of words and meanings does not change the truth of scripture.
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Post by teresahrc on Jun 5, 2009 13:06:24 GMT -5
Now men give birth?
Israel is the Father of the 12 tribes. The 12 tribes (the descendants of Israel) are also called "Israel".
You could say that "Israel" gave birth to the Messiah, and in a way that is true, but that would definitely not be taking Revelation literally. Consistency..
The only woman to give birth to Jesus was Mary.
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Post by teresahrc on Jun 5, 2009 13:12:58 GMT -5
How is Israel clothed with Jacob? Israel and Jacob are the same person!!
Why are people afraid to say anything about Mary?
Last Easter, we went to a "Passion" play at this huge mega church in our town. It is supposedly their biggest ministry of the year. The play was OK, a bit cloying and acting was so-so, but what stood out in my mind most of all was that Mary Mother of Jesus was mysteriously gone from the ENTIRE PLAY! She had no one playing her role. She was not even at the foot of the cross!
BUT Mary Magdalene was one of the main characters and was there at the cross. They even wrote in a roll of a woman that was a wife of one of the Pharisees and she had her own scene! What's up with that?
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Post by Cepha on Jun 5, 2009 13:13:06 GMT -5
Now men give birth? Israel is the Father of the 12 tribes. The 12 tribes (the descendants of Israel) are also called "Israel". You could say that "Israel" gave birth to the Messiah, and in a way that is true, but that would definitely not be taking Revelation literally. Consistency.. The only woman to give birth to Jesus was Mary. Exactly. The only reason that Jesus has a Davidian Lineage is because of His being born "of" Mary's flesh! It is Mary's lineage that is transferred to Christ "literally" in His physical form (as He had no biological father to do that). In order for Him to even be descended of David, He had to be born of a "woman" first who was of Davidian descent...Mary. ;D You could also say that Israel gave birth to those who rejected Jesus Christ to this day and that IS true (without a doubt).
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Post by Cepha on Jun 5, 2009 13:17:10 GMT -5
I didn't say stepping, your twisting of words and meanings does not change the truth of scripture. Ok, but could you respond to these questions? And...I never said you said stepping...and, I don't have to twist any words. The Bible says that the moon is "under" the woman's feet. Period. This "is" the image as portrayed by Revelation 12, that the moon is literally "underneath" the "woman's" feet. But that scripture is explained as it talking about submisssion to Joseph (which coincidentally is exactly what would happen).
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Post by Cepha on Jun 5, 2009 13:21:26 GMT -5
How is Israel clothed with Jacob? Israel and Jacob are the same person!! LOL! That's what I'm asking too! Because Catholics love her so there must be something wrong with admitting that it is Mary...it would justify Catholic belief that she is our mother if they actually "believed" the scripture "as written". They were editing scripture to suit their personal beliefs. Look at that...they'll even "make up" roles to fill in the void of Mary, The Blessed Mother of Jesus Christ, yet "not" include her in the account that they want to portray about Jesus Christ.
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Post by Cepha on Jun 5, 2009 13:32:54 GMT -5
[The only woman to give birth to Jesus was Mary. Hold on! I just caught that! Rev 12 says that it was a "woman" that gave birth to Jesus, but some would have us believe that it was the Nation of Israel which by the way is made up of men too! Excellent point Teresa! (but I guess, for the sake of proving that Mary is not the woman in the scripture, they can allow men to become women too...you know who else believed things like this? The Gnostics...they too taught that sexes had to be changed in order for certain things to be believed)
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Post by emily445455 on Jun 5, 2009 14:34:16 GMT -5
Not Israel the person, Israel the nation.
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Post by Cepha on Jun 5, 2009 15:05:23 GMT -5
Not Israel the person, Israel the nation. Exactly! The same Nation that rejected Jesus Christ! We are taught to judge a tree by the fruit it bears. How can Jesus (a good fruit) come from a bad tree (The Nation of Israel that rejected Jesus and that cursed Him and that put Him on a cross and that to this day denies He is The Son of The Living God)? That's impossible!
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Post by emily445455 on Jun 5, 2009 15:13:09 GMT -5
If I were you, I wouldn't call God's people bad......I guess you can if you want, but I wouldn't.
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Post by Cepha on Jun 5, 2009 15:26:41 GMT -5
If I were you, I wouldn't call God's people bad......I guess you can if you want, but I wouldn't. Well, if you want to be technical about it, we're all "bad" anyway. And...do you agree or not that only a good tree could produce a good fruit? Mary was the pure tree (she was a virgin). Israel rejected Jesus Christ. Can a good mother (as Jesus would have to come from a good tree) reject Jesus Christ?
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Post by emily445455 on Jun 5, 2009 16:37:37 GMT -5
I don't view the Jew as being bad or evil.
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Jun 5, 2009 16:57:24 GMT -5
I dont view jews bad or evil either...they just dont know the truth
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Post by emily445455 on Jun 5, 2009 16:59:34 GMT -5
Exactly, Marcie.
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Post by teresahrc on Jun 5, 2009 17:04:00 GMT -5
Romans says they were "cut off" because of disbelief. But that they are much more easily grafted back in.
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Post by watchman on Jun 5, 2009 19:23:16 GMT -5
Now men give birth? Israel is the Father of the 12 tribes. The 12 tribes (the descendants of Israel) are also called "Israel". You could say that "Israel" gave birth to the Messiah, and in a way that is true, but that would definitely not be taking Revelation literally. Consistency.. The only woman to give birth to Jesus was Mary. Israel is God's wife, how can you call her a man? Isaiah 54:5 For thy Maker is thine husband; the Lord of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
Jeremiah 3:14 Turn, O backsliding children, saith the Lord; for I am married unto you:.....
Isaiah 62:5 As the bridegroom rejoiceth over the bride, so shall thy God rejoice over thee.
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Post by watchman on Jun 5, 2009 19:29:09 GMT -5
Why are people afraid to say anything about Mary? I have nothing at all against Mary, she was a great woman of God she is probably the best of all woman in all of scripture. However that does not mean I should agree with false catholic teaching that can be easily proven wrong. Which I have already done is this thread, not that I expect you to see it. You have your beliefs, no amount of truth will change that . Just like the pretribbers in the other thread, it is so obviously false, but they will take their beliefs with them to their death. No amount of truth can convince them, nor will the truth convince you.
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