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Post by Cepha on Jun 21, 2008 22:32:41 GMT -5
A Muslim & A Southern Baptist were on a talk show today.
It was a moderated 1/2 hour show on PBS.
While the moderator was trying to talk about the simillarities of the two faiths, the Baptist focused on the differences. There were no Catholics there, but The Catholic Church was brought into the conversation regarding The Pope's views on us all being able to be saved through our justification with God.
What amazed me is that The Muslim who was far less educated religiously than the Baptist had his facts down straight. He could name dates and events and times and names to prove his points. I have to admit that as a Christian, I was twitching every time the Baptist couldn't answer any of the mod's questions.
Then I realized something...I've never seen a Baptist or a Protestant for that matter ever fully answer a theological question posed to them.
To them, the standard answer to every question ever asked of them that they couldn't answer was: "Well, it doesn't matter because the only thing that matters is that Jesus Christ, The Lord suffered and died for our sins, etc...".
But that's not an answer and it is completely unBiblical to not be able to defend your faith or to give an explaination for "why" you believe. Now I know why Peter stressed this...because it makes the Believer's faith look false.
The Muslim (of course) praised The Pope's efforts to reach out to his faith while The Protestant continued to focus only on what divided them. The Pope was able to discuss what divided the Muslim and The Christian without focussing only on that and this left the door open for continual dialogue between two faiths that love God.
Is there any Protestant outreach towards Muslims going on now?
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Post by Cepha on Jun 24, 2008 11:40:54 GMT -5
Why do Muslims know more about Christian history than Evangelicals?
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Post by teresahrc on Jun 24, 2008 13:05:50 GMT -5
Humm....this one is right up my alley.
For 12 years I was a protestant training to be a missionary (and was a missionary) to Muslims. You pretty much hit the nail on the head as far as church history. In 12 years of various protestant church sermons, church history was rarely touched on, and if it was it was either for the sake of Catholic bashing or to add a little spark to make the sermon sound better (like a short quote from St. Augustine for example) I surely wasn't trained in Church History in the many missions classes, seminars and books I read. The "Bible alone" is certainly not a good argument to make with Muslims because they believe it was corrupted. How can protestants prove the Bible isn't corrupted? Well, they can't because they don't believe in an infallible church.
I hope and pray that Catholics will begin to reclaim their missionary call and provide a solid witness of Christianity to Muslims. Protestants are flooding the Islamic world with hundreds of varieties of denominations. God may surely use some of their effort, inasmuch as they bring the scriptures and baptism but they are also sowing a false concept of the church that will self destruct (and is self destructing. In Nigeria, there are over 400 denominations which have become almost tribal and are warring against one another)
Let us pray with Jesus,
"20"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. Teresa
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Post by Cepha on Jun 24, 2008 13:20:19 GMT -5
Humm....this one is right up my alley. For 12 years I was a protestant training to be a missionary (and was a missionary) to Muslims. You pretty much hit the nail on the head as far as church history. In 12 years of various protestant church sermons, church history was rarely touched on, and if it was it was either for the sake of Catholic bashing or to add a little spark to make the sermon sound better (like a short quote from St. Augustine for example) I surely wasn't trained in Church History in the many missions classes, seminars and books I read. The "Bible alone" is certainly not a good argument to make with Muslims because they believe it was corrupted. How can protestants prove the Bible isn't corrupted? Well, they can't because they don't believe in an infallible church. I hope and pray that Catholics will begin to reclaim their missionary call and provide a solid witness of Christianity to Muslims. Protestants are flooding the Islamic world with hundreds of varieties of denominations. God may surely use some of their effort, inasmuch as they bring the scriptures and baptism but they are also sowing a false concept of the church that will self destruct (and is self destructing. In Nigeria, there are over 400 denominations which have become almost tribal and are warring against one another) Let us pray with Jesus, "20"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. Teresa  Look to the top left of this page...that's the scripture I have listed there. |
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Post by teresahrc on Jun 24, 2008 17:51:23 GMT -5
I don't see it; but that's cool.
Right now, that is my form of being a missionary--praying and working for unity in the Church. I'm actually writing a book about it too! (I'll tell you when it's finished)
Teresa
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Danica-Christine.
New Member
"Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us, now, & at the hour of our death."
Posts: 45
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Post by Danica-Christine. on Jul 5, 2008 5:01:09 GMT -5
Personally, I don't focus on Allah, Mohammed, or any such, I focus on, "We both love the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob."
I don't tell them they're going to hell or such, because who says I'm going to Heaven? It's all up to the Grace and Mercy of Jesus.
xx
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Post by Cepha on Jul 5, 2008 10:24:04 GMT -5
Since you two have gotten here, you've had such a balancing effect on this board with your words. I think God knew what was coming and gave us a counterbalance. Thank you both for being here. |
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Danica-Christine.
New Member
"Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us, now, & at the hour of our death."
Posts: 45
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Post by Danica-Christine. on Jul 7, 2008 5:27:18 GMT -5
*Hugs Cepha*
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Post by Cepha on Jul 7, 2008 11:49:21 GMT -5
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Post by teresahrc on Jul 23, 2008 12:56:17 GMT -5
Why do Muslims know more about Christian history than Evangelicals?
I'm starting to find something out Cepha,
That Evangelicals HAVE to ignore Christian history and have to ignore the Councils of the Church. It's weird though because some Churches do acknowledge the 1st council of Nicea, but then ignore the 2nd council of Nicea. Or some talk about the very early church, like Polycarp(like how brave he was in his martyrdom) , but then ignore what they said about the Eucharist. Selective amnesia?
teresa
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Post by Cepha on Aug 4, 2008 21:14:53 GMT -5
I may be mistaking, but are any of you saying that a muslim can get to heaven without confession Christ as the Son of God? His death on the cross and resurrection on the third day? Yes. Romans 2 (the whole chapter). The Theif on the cross didn't confess that Jesus was The Son of God and he was saved. |
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Post by Cepha on Aug 4, 2008 23:03:52 GMT -5
The thief may not have used the exact words ''I believe you are the Son of God , please forgive me of my sins'', but that is a protestant formula right, I do not subscribe to it. Never the less, he said nothing remotely to what you cited as a requisite for salvation. But he didn't confess Jesus as The Son of God (as you said one must). And he was saved. But he didn't confess Jesus as The Son of God (as you said one must). And he was saved. That applies only to Christians (that's to whom it was said). And remember, no man goes to Jesus, if The Father didn't lead them to Him in the first place. It is God Who brings men to Christ. |
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Post by Cepha on Aug 4, 2008 23:08:31 GMT -5
You may think that assuring the muslim of their religious right is the kind, christianly thing to do, but in reality it is very selfish and harmful. I would rather someone share the truth to me, than pat me on my back all the way to Hell. Ok then. I'll stop patting your back.  Seriously though, their relationship with God is between them and God. You should be obeying scripture. You should be working out "your own" salvation and not be worried about anybody else's until you have secured your own. Really. How can you take the splinter in anyone else's eye out while you have a log in yours? |
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Post by teresahrc on Aug 5, 2008 11:20:32 GMT -5
Watchman, you are absolutely correct. Salvation is through Christ alone.
I think Cepha thinks that you are saying that the only way we are saved is if we say a certain "sinner's prayer" in a certain way, like in a formula.
But surely watchman, you don't believe that little children who haven't "confessed Christ" will go to hell do you? If the answer is no, then why not? It is a very important question to ask yourself. Also, what do you make of the Old Testament saints (who are saved through Jesus of course) they didn't know of the gospel before they died.
And what do you make of this:
47"That servant who knows his master's will and does not get ready or does not do what his master wants will be beaten with many blows. 48But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows. From everyone who has been given much, much will be demanded; and from the one who has been entrusted with much, much more will be asked.
(Luke 12)
Teresa
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Post by teresahrc on Aug 5, 2008 11:23:28 GMT -5
Also, just so you know, Catholics do evangelism! My husband and I plan to move to Turkey as Missionaries
teresa
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Post by Cepha on Aug 5, 2008 11:25:02 GMT -5
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Post by Cepha on Aug 5, 2008 11:35:26 GMT -5
Also, just so you know, Catholics do evangelism! My husband and I plan to move to Turkey as Missionaries teresa We were The Church that brought Christ to the world, that God chose to reveal The Canon of The Bible to the world, that revealed the Doctrines of Salvation, of Justification and that revealed The Doctrine of The Holy Spirit. Every Christian Martyr was Catholic. The Church Fathers, Catholic. For the first 1500 years of Christianity, you were either Catholic or a Heretic. We just couldn't keep up with the growth of Hereticism because The Black Plague wiped out 2/3's of The Vocations giving Hereticism free reign The first schism was when? 1000 years after Jesus died? Wasn't Satan imprisoned for a thousand years by Michael right after Jesus was taken to heaven as Revelation 12 tells us? Hmmm...That's when Satan began to attack The Church (when he went to make war on the children of The Woman in Rev 12). And he sifted the weak out of The Church...those seeds that didn't fall on fertile soil (the seeds are God's graces, the soil is man...man is literally made "of" soil...if his heart wasn't fertile, the seeds of God's graces couldn't germinate and grow). Matthew 7. The House built upon rock (Peter)? The Catholic Church. The house built upon sand/soil (men)? Protestantism. And it was the house that collapsed and great was it's fall as it splintered into 30,000+ denominations. Which Church is still "one"? The Cathoic Church. Why? Because it was founded upon The Rock Whom Jesus chose to build His Church upon...Peter (literally, The Rock...in Aramaic? Cepha). |
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Post by Cepha on Aug 6, 2008 8:06:26 GMT -5
To say that you are "secure" is to say that you are "guaranteed". www.Dictionary.comsecure Synonyms: collateral, confidence, guarantee, guaranty, mooring, pledge, protection, security, stability, surety Perhaps, a different choice of word (secure) would be appropriate. |
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Post by teresahrc on Aug 6, 2008 14:03:35 GMT -5
We aren't "guaranteed" salvation, but we can guarantee that God does not lie, and that He won't break His promises. And we can rest in our salvation.
teresa
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Post by Cepha on Aug 6, 2008 14:25:23 GMT -5
I disagree, there is no garantee that my wife will not one day decide to leave me, but I am secure with our relationship and am sure she will not. Then you disagree with the English language. But I guess everyone is entitled to "re-define" words to suit their beliefs. Again, in your "language", it seems that those two words don't mean the same. Let's try to stick to English here.  And in English, "secure" means "guaranteed". And no one is guaranteed Salvation. Eternal salvation isn't guaranteed until you are "in" Heaven, but while alive, you can always relinquish your Salvation. (as is evident by Scripture) |
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