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Post by Ramon on Apr 25, 2009 21:47:20 GMT -5
Thanks for sharing that Ramon. By the way, how do you pronounce your name? The English way or the Spanish way or a different way? (I alway "say" words in my head when I read, and I feel like I need to know the write way to say everything) Depends, lol. My family pronounce as if my name was "RAYmond". My friends and the majority who know me pronounce my name the Spanish way. I prefer the Spanish way 19 going on 20. Do you keep all the Orthodox fasts? Yes. The basic fast days (Wednesday and Friday), Saturday midnight to Sunday Morning (a fast devoted to partaking of the Eucharist), and on certain feast days. On the issue on what or what not to eat/drink, there are some basic Orthodox Fast rules, but that should be discuss with one's Priest or Spiritual Father since not anyone follow the same rules, especially if you are a newly member in the Orthodox Church. You should be a priest--I heard there is a shortage of Orthodox Priests. You would do a good job. Thank-you. I was thinking about becoming a Orthodox Priest or deacon. I am going to wait and see if that is God's plan in my life. If later on in my life I finnaly decide to become a Priest or deacon, I will get married first  The Orthodox Church allowed Priest/Deacons (etc) to be married, but only before there Ordination. Also, I'm wondering why don't Orthodox believe in Purgatory? What then would be the point of praying for departed souls? If they are in the fullness of "Heaven" then they don't need prayer... We do not believe in purgatory (at least not the RC version of it; Greek Orthodox Metropolitan Kallistos Ware acknowledges several schools of thought among the Orthodox on the topic of purification after death. This divergence indicates that the Catholic interpretation of purgatory, more than the concept itself, is what is universally rejected.) because, to us, it was not the consensus teaching of the Holy Fathers of the Church (it was declared a dogma by the Roman Church in the 13th century). We do believe in some type of purification, that extend even to the afterlife. Scriptures are clear that sanctification is a life long process; salvation is also spoken of in Scriptures in the "past, present, future" contexts (Romans 5:1,9, 1st Peter 1:8-9, 1Corinthians 3:15). Our main goal to be partakers of the divine nature as Saint Peter wrote. The Early Fathers spoke about how God became man, so that we may become God (Saint Anthansius for instance, cf. De Incarnatione, I), not in the sense that we cease to be created beings (or that we become equal to God), but that we participate in his "divine energies" (being partakers of the divine nature). This is the doctrine of Theosis in the Orthodox Church. It is being united with God, beginning in this life and later consummated in the bodily resurrection. Orthodox Christians pray for the dead so that the Lord will have mercy on their souls, that He will grant them eternal rest "in the bosom of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob," that He will extend His unfathomable love upon them, and that He will receive them into that state "in which there is neither sickness, nor sighing, nor sorrow, but life everlasting." Saint Paul clearly teaches that those who have gone before us are still members of the Body of Christ, the Church. And it is the duty of the members of the Church to pray for one another. We ask God that what sin he or she committed may be forgiven through his Great Mercy.
The Orthodox Church has not dogmatize any belief concerning the afterlife. Scriptures only tells us a fraction about the afterlife. There are many theological opinions in the Orthodox Church (such as the belief that the soul hover over the body for three days and then get transported to either heaven or Hades. I heard this from the Greek Orthodox Church. It is based on a Saint's vision). The most commonly held belief is that after death, your soul is either taken to Heaven by Angels, or sent to Hades/Sheol - we pray for the dead so that they may be taken to heaven or to ease their stay in Hades (indeed all ancient cultures, Jews included - prayed for the dead so that they may be comforted in the afterlife).
In IC.XC,
Ramon
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Post by teresahrc on Apr 26, 2009 7:10:47 GMT -5
It sounds like Orthodox do believe in Purgatory, but they just don't want to admit it. Hehe.
I'm really impressed that you are only 19! I surely didn't know this much about my faith at that age, and if I did I wouldn't be able to articulate it as well as you.
I'll call the Seminary and tell them you are on your way. (just joking)
Ok, in my mind, I have been calling you Ramon, the Spanish way, so I'm glad to know that.
Peace
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Post by Ramon on Apr 26, 2009 9:14:46 GMT -5
It sounds like Orthodox do believe in Purgatory, but they just don't want to admit it. Hehe. Don't tell that to my Priest! I'm really impressed that you are only 19! I surely didn't know this much about my faith at that age, and if I did I wouldn't be able to articulate it as well as you. I have to thank my parents. Growing up in a Pentecostal home was hard. From a early age, my parents took me to church and made me read Scriptures everyday. Back then, I wasn't really into though. I mean...what kid what to read there Bible when they can be playing video games? It was only in High School that I got into it, and started to study Scriptures more deeply, the Church Fathers, and Church history. Even now I am learning about my Faith each day. As my Priest told me one time "You know...in a sense, we never cease being catechumens, we learn more about our Faith each day". By the way, how old you thought I was? LOL. I'll call the Seminary and tell them you are on your way. (just joking) LOL! Don't worry.....I'll call myself! LOL In IC.XC, Ramon |
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Post by teresahrc on Apr 26, 2009 14:32:03 GMT -5
I thought you were 25-30 ish
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Post by alfie on Apr 30, 2009 18:42:20 GMT -5
It sounds like Orthodox do believe in Purgatory, but they just don't want to admit it. Hehe. I'm really impressed that you are only 19! I surely didn't know this much about my faith at that age, and if I did I wouldn't be able to articulate it as well as you. I'll call the Seminary and tell them you are on your way. (just joking) Ok, in my mind, I have been calling you Ramon, the Spanish way, so I'm glad to know that. Peace So, if there was no purgatory then a Catholic could never go to Heaven because he would not be purified enough to enter. That means there is no real difference between venial and mortal sins because you still can't go to Heaven if you only commit only venials. Do you not see the irony in this? |
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Post by teresahrc on Apr 30, 2009 18:55:14 GMT -5
I don't see it.
I think you are looking at it from a "legalistic" point of view. It's about a relationship with God.
If people are living in "mortal sin" with no repentance, fully aware that they are committing mortal sin, then I don't see that they have a desire to go to heaven anyway.
And again, the Church doesn't say that purgatory is a "place" to go to.
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Post by alfie on Apr 30, 2009 19:25:01 GMT -5
I don't see it. I think you are looking at it from a "legalistic" point of view. It's about a relationship with God. If people are living in "mortal sin" with no repentance, fully aware that they are committing mortal sin, then I don't see that they have a desire to go to heaven anyway. And again, the Church doesn't say that purgatory is a "place" to go to. Catechism of the Catholic Church III. The Final Purification, or Purgatory 1030 All who die in God's grace and friendship, but still imperfectly purified, are indeed assured of their eternal salvation; but after death they undergo purification, so as to achieve the holiness necessary to enter the joy of heaven. 1031 The Church gives the name Purgatory to this final purification of the elect, which is entirely different from the punishment of the damned.604 The Church formulated her doctrine of faith on Purgatory especially at the Councils of Florence and Trent. the tradition of the Church, by reference to certain texts of Scripture, speaks of a cleansing fire:605 As for certain lesser faults, we must believe that, before the Final Judgment, there is a purifying fire. He who is truth says that whoever utters blasphemy against the Holy Spirit will be pardoned neither in this age nor in the age to come. From this sentence we understand that certain offenses can be forgiven in this age, but certain others in the age to come.606 1032 This teaching is also based on the practice of prayer for the dead, already mentioned in Sacred Scripture: "Therefore Judas Maccabeus] made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin."607 From the beginning the Church has honored the memory of the dead and offered prayers in suffrage for them, above all the Eucharistic sacrifice, so that, thus purified, they may attain the beatific vision of God.608 The Church also commends almsgiving, indulgences, and works of penance undertaken on behalf of the dead: Let us help and commemorate them. If Job's sons were purified by their father's sacrifice, why would we doubt that our offerings for the dead bring them some consolation? Let us not hesitate to help those who have died and to offer our prayers for them.609 Purgatory sounds, long, painful and scary. |
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Post by teresahrc on Apr 30, 2009 21:21:07 GMT -5
Anything that rids me of whatever is not pleasing to God is not scary to me.
Unless a grain of wheat falls to the earth and dies, it remains only a seed.
If we share in the sufferings of Christ now, there's no reason to fear. Jesus said "Blessed are the pure of heart, for they shall see God". I know that at this very moment, my heart is not 100% pure. I want it to be totally pure, but I know it isn't. Yet I want to be discliplined by God, purged, cleansed, scrubbed, whatever it takes, in order to see Him. Whether it all happens in this age, or in the age to come doesn't matter to me.
teresa
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Post by Cepha on May 1, 2009 8:59:00 GMT -5
So, if there was no purgatory then a Catholic could never go to Heaven because he would not be purified enough to enter. That means there is no real difference between venial and mortal sins because you still can't go to Heaven if you only commit only venials. Do you not see the irony in this? If there was no purgatory then pretty much no one (Catholics or not) would not be going to heaven because almost nobody dies in a state of grace. Almost everybody dies in a state of sin. And to say that there is no real difference between venial and mortal sin is to say that The Bible was lieing when it said that some sin leads one unto death and that some sin doesn't. No irony. Only ironic if you don't accept the scripture as it's written. Some sin leads one unto death (mortal). Some sin doesn't lead one unto death (venial). What's so hard about grasping and accepting that? |
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Post by Cepha on May 1, 2009 9:01:24 GMT -5
Purgatory sounds, long, painful and scary. Why? Everybody there knows their guaranteed Heaven. There are no sad souls in Purgatory. Only happy souls. As for how long it will take? That depends on the sinners sins that need to be cleansed. God is a just God. He would not leave one there past their time. Just long enough to be cleansed of their venial sins (purification). |
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The Orthodox Church allowed Priest/Deacons (etc) to be married, but only before there Ordination. 
