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Post by Ramon on May 27, 2009 10:31:18 GMT -5
There is one question to answer all of this "confusion"... ...Since there can only be "one" true Church, which one is it out of the 33,000 Denominations? Asked an answered, all true believers is Christ who have made Him not only Savior but Lord of their lives also are part of the body of Christ ie the true Church. Where are the true believers? That is why both you and Emily believe, whether or not you and her want to admit it, that Christ is head of many bodies. Not all "Born-again believers who believe and obey the Bible are of one faith, one spirit and one baptism " because each has a different faith! Each believe and practice differently. Protestants can even agree among themselves what is "One Faith, One Sprint, and One Baptism". Christ said he leads ONE Flock (John 10). Christ can't lead this "flock" of yours because every sheep is wandering off in different directions!There was unity of love, believe, and practice in the Apostolic Church. This is lost in Protestantism and those who do not wish to be label "Protestants". No, Christ started ONE Church with ONE Faith, ONE Spirit, and ONE Baptism. His Church, the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church resides in the East. Look and you shall find the truth. Come Home Watchman! In IC.XC, Ramon |
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Post by teresahrc on May 27, 2009 10:31:28 GMT -5
20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,"[e] and he was called God's friend. 24 You see that people are justified by what they do and not by faith alone.
James 2
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God's handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.
(Ephesians 2)
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Post by teresahrc on May 27, 2009 10:32:58 GMT -5
Watchman, you say you believe in "Sola Scriptura" but then you count as being weightier, the claim that God spoke to you.
So do you believe in Bible Alone or not?
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Post by emily445455 on May 27, 2009 10:34:59 GMT -5
Cepha- youre right, The Catholic Church isn't trustworthy. Jesus did not start it and it isn't even a Christian church....idk what it is, but it isn't Christian.
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on May 27, 2009 10:37:48 GMT -5
You dont know what it is....then you dont know that it is'nt a Christian Church. That is the most unchristian thing to say em. Have you ever attended a mass? If you did, you would know that we are Christian...we believe in most things Baptist believe and just a lil more.
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Post by emily445455 on May 27, 2009 10:59:01 GMT -5
Yes I have attended a mass...it was one of the weirdest things I've ever seen. It is a sin to add anything to the Bible. I don't care what Baptists believe, I care about what the BIble says.
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Post by teresahrc on May 27, 2009 11:01:24 GMT -5
Wow.
If you are going to make such an astonishing, outright condemnation of the Catholic Church, I hope you are prepared to defend your statement.
First, what is your definition of the following:
1. Christian
2. Christian Church
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Post by teresahrc on May 27, 2009 11:07:18 GMT -5
It is true, the Mass is "weird".
When I say "weird" , I mean "peculiar, strange, not normal".
In this world, it is "weird" to proclaim Jesus Christ and Him crucified.
It is "weird" to renounce the things of the world, and fix our eyes Jesus--the resurrected one.
In this world, it is "weird" to reverence the word of God and solemnly hear it being read.
It is "weird" to worship God, and pray to Him, expecting to be heard.
It is "weird" to have faith in things not seen.
I totally agree, the mass is weird.
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Post by emily445455 on May 27, 2009 11:09:25 GMT -5
Sure.
A Christian is someone who has accepted Christ as their God and Savior, has repented of their sin, and is living their daily life to serve Him. I do not like the term Christian because too many people use it, so I usually use the term "born-again Christian". There are Christians in the CC.
Christian Church- This can have two meanings. 1) physical buildings or places where the Bible is preached and followed. This can be any church in any denomination, probably including some Catholic churches. 2) God's Church is the body of believers, or born-again Christians. They can also be in any physical church anywhere around the world...it's not limited to one denomination or group of buildings.
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Post by emily445455 on May 27, 2009 11:10:22 GMT -5
I meant the mass was weird in terms of what I knew about the Bible.
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Post by teresahrc on May 27, 2009 11:19:06 GMT -5
I meant the mass was weird in terms of what I knew about the Bible. Ok. So, what part is weird? What part is weird compared to your Church? |
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Post by teresahrc on May 27, 2009 11:21:59 GMT -5
Sure. A Christian is someone who has accepted Christ as their God and Savior, has repented of their sin, and is living their daily life to serve Him.... Christian Church- This can have two meanings. 1) physical buildings or places where the Bible is preached and followed. This can be any church in any denomination, probably including some Catholic churches. 2) God's Church is the body of believers, or born-again Christians. They can also be in any physical church anywhere around the world...it's not limited to one denomination or group of buildings. Emily, based on your definitions of "Chrisitian" and "Christian Church", how then can you say that the Catholic Church (or Catholics) are not "Christian" and how can you say that the Catholic Church is not a "Christian Church"? |
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Post by emily445455 on May 27, 2009 11:22:04 GMT -5
It was a long time ago...well only about 4-5 yrs ago but still kind of long. The holy water was weird...where they threw it out on the people and they reached up to try and get it. Bowing before the alter was also weird. And all the stuff that was in the cathedral...like little weird statues of dead saints in their caskets....yuck. Oh and the cross thing...but I've always found that to be odd. Where they do the cross in the face and neck after praying.
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Post by emily445455 on May 27, 2009 11:24:55 GMT -5
I believe some Catholics are Christians, just like some Protestants are Christians. Just not most, from either group.
The CC does a lot of unBiblical things based on what the Pope has said, or tradition, etc. UnBiblical=unChristian.
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on May 27, 2009 11:29:22 GMT -5
That cross thing is call a "genuflect" spelling could be off. But what is so wrong with doing the sign of the cross? Nothing satanic about that!
I dont bow to the alter...
I dont have the energy to even defend your other statements..
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Post by watchman on May 27, 2009 11:38:06 GMT -5
There is only one legitimate priest in the N.T. Church and that is Jesus Christ our high priest whos priesthood remains forever. Really? So then Saint Paul is an illegitimate Priest?  St Paul was an Apostle not a priest. |
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Post by watchman on May 27, 2009 11:39:37 GMT -5
Watchman, you say you believe in "Sola Scriptura" but then you count as being weightier, the claim that God spoke to you. So do you believe in Bible Alone or not? I believe in personal revelation. I believe God can speak directly to an individual, however what God speaks to you will never contradict His written word. |
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Post by watchman on May 27, 2009 11:43:07 GMT -5
Here is an answer that will blow your mind. God told me. Well, if you believe that it was God that told you that and you're sure that it wasn't Satan, then you should be able to explain to me (since you have divine infallible information here) the name of the church, or the location. Since God is not the author of confusion and Satan is the father of lies, let's see how you can prove what you believe God told you.  Because God told me only 20% of people who attend church believing themselves to be saved are actually on their way to Heaven and pin pointing one church that is 100% infallible have nothing to do with one another. Further more I already told you the 20% that are truly saved are the Church. God calls them His remnant. |
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Post by watchman on May 27, 2009 11:44:39 GMT -5
You see this is where you are wrong and shows that you do not understand sola scriptura. The Bible does not contradict itself therefore it is impossible for 1st Cor 7:14 to mean what cepha claims because it is contradictory to the rest of the Bible, and any sola scriptura believe would agree with me. Well, according to SS, SS is "wrong" since it's not to be found taught by Jesus Christ or anybody else in the Bible. And, one man's contradiction is merely his inability to reconcile the two scriptures for lack of understanding and guidance of the Holy Spirit. If The Holy Spirit wants you to read two scriptures that seemingly contradict each other, but in reality don't and to understand it, then you would (as I can). I can read 1 Corinthians 7:14 and easily accept (because this has been revealed to me) that the righteous unbelieving spouse of a saved spouse is thus made holy by the faith of the saved spouse. I have no problems with accepting that scripture as written. ;D Your problem is if your interpretation of 1st Cor 7:14 is correct the the rest of the bible is wrong. |
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Post by teresahrc on May 27, 2009 11:44:43 GMT -5
It was a long time ago...well only about 4-5 yrs ago but still kind of long. The holy water was weird...where they threw it out on the people and they reached up to try and get it. Bowing before the alter was also weird. And all the stuff that was in the cathedral...like little weird statues of dead saints in their caskets....yuck. Oh and the cross thing...but I've always found that to be odd. Where they do the cross in the face and neck after praying. Holy water is a sacramental(not a sacrament). That means it is like a symbol, or something that helps people focus on the Kingdom of God instead of this world. The purpose of Holy water is to remind us of our baptism, that we have put on Christ. Usually it is only from Easter to Pentecost that people are "sprinkled". I have never seen people "reach up" for this, but if they did at the Church you went to, I don't see how that is "weird". Bowing before the altar is respecting and honoring God, not the altar itself. Don't many protestant Churches have "altar calls"? Where do you think they came up with the idea of an "altar"? From the Catholic Church. Except most of them have taken the meaning out of it because they don't believe the Eucharist is really the body and blood of Jesus. I don't know what Cathedral you went to that had statues of caskets with Saints. Saints are not dead though, they are alive in Christ, because God is not the God of the dead but of the living. We honor Saints that are "asleep" in the Lord because the Bible does the same thing. Read in Hebrews about the "great cloud of witnesses" the same chapter talks about many holy people that have gone before us and that they are an example for us. It even talks about the gruesome way in which some were martyred ("sawed in two"! if that's not "yucky" what is?) You said you never found the "cross thing" to be weird, so why did you bring it up? Just curious. Do you mean a crucifix or do you mean when Christians make the sign of the cross? We also make a small cross with our hand over our forehead, mouth and heart before the Gospel is read. (is that what you were asking about?) The reason we do this is to remind us that God's word is to be in our minds, on our lips, and in our hearts always. The Jews wear "phylacteries" on their foreheads because God commanded them to do so. In the Bible, the pharisees make their phylacteries very large so that people would think they were more holy than others. When we make the sign of the cross on our head, lips and heart, we are acknowledging the same principle that God originally commanded the Jews, but it is a sign to us alone. |
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