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Post by Cepha on May 6, 2009 12:56:38 GMT -5
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Post by watchman on May 6, 2009 13:12:08 GMT -5
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. You must believe and then be baptized to be saved, but if you do not believe you will be damned. There is no question that the emphasis is on believing and not being baptized.
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Post by Cepha on May 6, 2009 13:29:12 GMT -5
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. You must believe and then be baptized to be saved, but if you do not believe you will be damned. There is no question that the emphasis is on believing and not being baptized. Ok, so babies and mentally ill people are condemned to hell because they are incapable of believing, right? |
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Post by watchman on May 6, 2009 13:52:12 GMT -5
Nope, and there do not need to be baptized either. That is my whole point  |
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on May 6, 2009 16:36:19 GMT -5
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. You must believe and then be baptized to be saved, but if you do not believe you will be damned. There is no question that the emphasis is on believing and not being baptized. If we want to get technical....it says believeth AND(not then) is baptised. |
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Post by emily445455 on May 6, 2009 18:33:58 GMT -5
"baptism" in the bible doesn't always mean by water.
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Post by Cepha on May 7, 2009 9:50:20 GMT -5
Nope, and there do not need to be baptized either. That is my whole point But the scripture you posted states that to be saved, one must believe. I'm confused now by your contradictory answers. Is the scripture lieing? Or is your personal interpretation of it false?  See? Here's what you wrote: Then, you responded to my question about the mentally ill and babies being saved with this: If it cannot be proven that babies and the mentally ill believe in Jesus, then how is it that they can be saved? |
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Post by Cepha on May 7, 2009 9:51:26 GMT -5
Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. You must believe and then be baptized to be saved, but if you do not believe you will be damned. There is no question that the emphasis is on believing and not being baptized. If we want to get technical....it says believeth AND(not then) is baptised. I agree. There is no order placed there. I think that was a bad example to show priority of salvation requirements. Have another example Watchman? (Great catch M!) |
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Post by watchman on May 7, 2009 11:05:35 GMT -5
Just because you deny the truth does not make it less true.
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Post by Cepha on May 7, 2009 11:27:51 GMT -5
Just because you deny the truth does not make it less true. What "truth"? That what Marcie posted was accurate? That that scripture you chose doesn't say what you claimed it did? |
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Post by watchman on May 7, 2009 12:09:06 GMT -5
That you must believe before baptism is effective.
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on May 7, 2009 21:49:42 GMT -5
Where in the Bible does it say that you must believe before you are baptised?
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Post by emily445455 on May 7, 2009 22:08:28 GMT -5
Acts 8:36-38
If-then.
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on May 7, 2009 23:32:15 GMT -5
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Post by emily445455 on May 7, 2009 23:34:02 GMT -5
Notice how what you just copied and pasted totally skips verse 37? |
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on May 7, 2009 23:39:00 GMT -5
I got that from the bible gateway kjv
Oh, i see now. I looked in my NAB and it is a footnote..saying that the oldest and best manusctipts omited this verse, which is a Western text.
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Post by emily445455 on May 7, 2009 23:40:53 GMT -5
Hmm that's odd, it's in the KJV.
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on May 7, 2009 23:44:42 GMT -5
sorry new international version
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Post by emily445455 on May 7, 2009 23:49:23 GMT -5
oh ok |
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Post by watchman on May 8, 2009 4:32:13 GMT -5
Acts 8
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
Philip tells the Eunuch as I have already shown more than once on this thread that IF you believe THEN you may be baptized, and Jesus tells us in Mark 16:16 to believe and be baptized but if we do not believe we will be damned (whether we are baptized or not). So what is the point of baptism with out belief?
Mark 16:16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
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