|
|
Post by Cepha on Jun 8, 2009 11:05:22 GMT -5
I'm starting to think maybe it is the archangel. Remember in Jude when Michael was disputing with Satan about the body of Moses? Angels are not "what's" as that which does the restraining is referred to in scripture. The Archangel Michael is not a "thing", but a heavenly being.  |
|
|
|
Post by Cepha on Jun 8, 2009 11:07:42 GMT -5
To be honest, I think the "pre-trib rapture" idea came about because a bunch of people were terrified of suffering. So they got some teachers to tell them what their "itching ears" wanted to hear. It doesn't matter to me because it doesn't change how we are to live our lives, and yes, the Christian life is a life of suffering. We are to take up our cross DAILY and follow Jesus. If anyone is to be killed by the sword, then by the sword he will be slain! Bring it on, I would love to be a martyr! Bring it on? Killed by the sword? You are more than amusing Teresa. In an earlier post you were whining about how tough your life is and yet you have the audacity to brag about being a martyr during the tribulation? Just remember you won't be able to get food stamps and medicaid. Don't you recognize the beauty in her post Alfie? When it comes to regular life, she's almost beaten. But when it comes to it having to do with Jesus, she's ON FIRE! I'd say she has her priorities right! She might be weak on her life, but she doesn't hesitate one bit when it comes to Christ! Teresa...  LOL! ;D |
|
|
|
Post by Cepha on Jun 8, 2009 11:10:28 GMT -5
According to the Navarre Bible, a highly respected Catholic Commentary, some believe the restrainer is Saint Michael the Archangel. Granted, it is not doctrine in the Roman Church (as far as I know the Catholic Church has not proclaim any interpretation concerning the Restrainer), but it is a held opinion within the Roman Church. I believe this interpretation is a better interpretation given the facts I wrote earlier. In IC.XC, Ramon The restrainer would be restraining lawlesness in the whole world until the time of delusion. Exactly, that which restrains is The Law (not a person). |
|
|
|
Post by alfie on Jun 8, 2009 11:14:13 GMT -5
To be honest, I think the "pre-trib rapture" idea came about because a bunch of people were terrified of suffering. So they got some teachers to tell them what their "itching ears" wanted to hear. It doesn't matter to me because it doesn't change how we are to live our lives, and yes, the Christian life is a life of suffering. We are to take up our cross DAILY and follow Jesus. If anyone is to be killed by the sword, then by the sword he will be slain! Bring it on, I would love to be a martyr! I don't stress it anyway...it's out of our hands. Let Jesus do His work while we "work out" our own salvation! ;D  Christians who live in the United States.....have they faced persecution like Christians in China or other parts of the world where you they are killed for their faith? So don't tell me it isn't possible that Christians could be raptured and avoid the tribulation. |
|
|
|
Post by alfie on Jun 8, 2009 11:15:53 GMT -5
Bring it on? Killed by the sword? You are more than amusing Teresa. In an earlier post you were whining about how tough your life is and yet you have the audacity to brag about being a martyr during the tribulation? Just remember you won't be able to get food stamps and medicaid. Don't you recognize the beauty in her post Alfie? When it comes to regular life, she's almost beaten. But when it comes to it having to do with Jesus, she's ON FIRE! I'd say she has her priorities right! She might be weak on her life, but she doesn't hesitate one bit when it comes to Christ! Teresa... LOL! ;D A hundred to one says she takes the mark of the beast. |
|
|
|
Post by Cepha on Jun 8, 2009 11:17:13 GMT -5
I don't stress it anyway...it's out of our hands. Let Jesus do His work while we "work out" our own salvation! ;D Christians who live in the United States.....have they faced persecution like Christians in China or other parts of the world where you they are killed for their faith? So don't tell me it isn't possible that Christians could be raptured and avoid the tribulation. Personally, I'm not up too much on all that rapture/pre/post/millenial/yada/yada/yada stuff. I'm not interested. As long as I'm ready for it, that's all that matters. How/who/when/where/why it happens is beyond my control. I love what Jesus says about the matter: Matthew 6:34So do not worry about tomorrow;
for tomorrow will care for itself.
Each day has enough trouble of its own. ;D |
|
|
|
Post by Cepha on Jun 8, 2009 11:17:59 GMT -5
A hundred to one says she takes the mark of the beast. Why?  |
|
|
|
Post by watchman on Jun 8, 2009 11:32:02 GMT -5
I don't stress it anyway...it's out of our hands. Let Jesus do His work while we "work out" our own salvation! ;D Christians who live in the United States.....have they faced persecution like Christians in China or other parts of the world where you they are killed for their faith? So don't tell me it isn't possible that Christians could be raptured and avoid the tribulation. I will tell you it is impossible because God's word says it is not going to happen, and God's word is the final authority. Besides the fact that other Christians in other nations are already being persecuted is proof against the rapture not for it. Do you think that American Christians are too good to suffer, and other Christians in other nations are not? |
|
|
|
Post by Cepha on Jun 8, 2009 11:41:58 GMT -5
I don't stress it anyway...it's out of our hands. Let Jesus do His work while we "work out" our own salvation! ;D Christians who live in the United States.....have they faced persecution like Christians in China or other parts of the world where you they are killed for their faith? Yes. African Americans believed they were human beings, but Christians here didn't and they persecuted them and enslaved them. Up until the 50's, they weren't even allowed to intermarry and this was all based upon uniquely American Christianity Beliefs. Anything is possible for God. And, God can change His mind if He wants to and completely "not" do whatever He said He was going to do in The Bible. He is God after all! ;D |
|
|
|
Post by alfie on Jun 8, 2009 11:46:51 GMT -5
I need to apologize to Teresa for my post. I was way out of line. It's just when she said she wanted to be a martyr the only thing I could think of was Peter and how he swore he would never deny the Lord. After Peter said that he denied the Lord three times. But later on Peter went on to be a martyr. So who am I to judge Teresa's heart? If she says she wants to be a martyr so be it. I for one admit to being a coward.
|
|
|
|
Post by alfie on Jun 8, 2009 11:53:52 GMT -5
Christians who live in the United States.....have they faced persecution like Christians in China or other parts of the world where you they are killed for their faith? Yes. African Americans believed they were human beings, but Christians here didn't and they persecuted them and enslaved them. Up until the 50's, they weren't even allowed to intermarry and this was all based upon uniquely American Christianity Beliefs. Anything is possible for God. And, God can change His mind if He wants to and completely "not" do whatever He said He was going to do in The Bible. He is God after all! ;D Show me in the Bible where slavery is not allowed. Personally I do not believe in mixed race marriages. The point of my post was that the majority of Christians throughout history have not been martyred for their faith. God calls certain people to be martyrs and gives them special grace to endure what they must go through. |
|
|
|
Post by Cepha on Jun 8, 2009 12:08:39 GMT -5
Show me in the Bible where slavery is not allowed. Uh, Moses? Egypt? You mean like Human Race and Animal Race? Or are you talking about people's color? Because there is only one Human Race. You need to read History "before" the 16th Century Alfie. For the first 400 years of Christianity (until Constantine The Great), Christianity were persecuted relentlessly. As for post 16th Century Christianity, Christians have been the biggest persecutors of Christians. Catholics were persecuted in The United States since we got here. The Pilgrims were a persecuted Christian Sect. Pentecostals were persecuted by Baptists in the early 1900's. Yep. I always thought what if I was called to renounce my faith or die, which would I choose? Death. Without flinching. |
|
|
|
Post by Cepha on Jun 8, 2009 12:10:22 GMT -5
I need to apologize to Teresa for my post. I was way out of line. It's just when she said she wanted to be a martyr the only thing I could think of was Peter and how he swore he would never deny the Lord. After Peter said that he denied the Lord three times. But later on Peter went on to be a martyr. So who am I to judge Teresa's heart? If she says she wants to be a martyr so be it. I for one admit to being a coward. That's a beautiful post Alfie. ;D Truly heartwarming. And...you never know what you'd do. I personally think you're "on-fire" for Jesus and I can't beleive that you'd renounce your own faith if tested. I have faith in "you".  |
|
|
|
Post by watchman on Jun 8, 2009 12:13:48 GMT -5
Anything is possible for God. And, God can change His mind if He wants to and completely "not" do whatever He said He was going to do in The Bible. He is God after all! ;D No, it is impossible for God to lie, and what the Bible says will come to pass. If God were to rapture the church pretribulationally then that would make the bible wrong and Christ a false prophet. |
|
|
|
Post by Cepha on Jun 8, 2009 12:16:39 GMT -5
No it is impossible for God to lie, and what the Bible says will come to pass. If God were to rapture the church pretribulationally then that would make the bible wrong and Christ a false prophet. Since when did changing one's mind constitute a lie? Is God limited to what He says? Then the would make Him "not" omnipotent. Right? God has changed His mind before you know. Remember when He cursed mankind to death, but then sent Jesus to give mankind another chance? |
|
|
|
Post by emily445455 on Jun 8, 2009 12:23:23 GMT -5
God cannot say "this WILL happen" or "I WILL do this" and then not do it. That would be lieing......
|
|
|
|
Post by alfie on Jun 8, 2009 12:32:07 GMT -5
Show me in the Bible where slavery is not allowed. Uh, Moses? Egypt? You mean like Human Race and Animal Race? Or are you talking about people's color? Because there is only one Human Race. You need to read History "before" the 16th Century Alfie. For the first 400 years of Christianity (until Constantine The Great), Christianity were persecuted relentlessly. As for post 16th Century Christianity, Christians have been the biggest persecutors of Christians. Catholics were persecuted in The United States since we got here. The Pilgrims were a persecuted Christian Sect. Pentecostals were persecuted by Baptists in the early 1900's. Yep. I always thought what if I was called to renounce my faith or die, which would I choose? Death. Without flinching. 1. What about Moses? 2. You know I am talking about the human race. And since there is only one human race then by reason I am not discriminating against any particular human if I don't want to date or marry them. I'm just rejecting another fellow human being. 3. Notice when Christians began to persecute one another? That's when the church (Catholic) became a man-made organization under Constantine. 4. You left out the persecution of people who didn't want to be forced into the Catholic church after it became a church. Don't forget the Catholics fired the first shot when they tried to force us protestants back into the fold. |
|
|
|
Post by watchman on Jun 8, 2009 12:34:32 GMT -5
No it is impossible for God to lie, and what the Bible says will come to pass. If God were to rapture the church pretribulationally then that would make the bible wrong and Christ a false prophet. Since when did changing one's mind constitute a lie? Is God limited to what He says? Then the would make Him "not" omnipotent. Right? God has changed His mind before you know. Remember when He cursed mankind to death, but then sent Jesus to give mankind another chance? You cannot be serious, Are you really asking these questions because you believe God can lie, or that God is not bound to His word. God had decided to send Jesus before He ever created the earth, it wasn't a spur of the moment type of decision. God knows the end from the beginning and what He declares will come to pass. Jesus said Heaven and earth may pass away but my word will never pass away? Hebrews 6
17 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath:
18 That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us: God IS bound by His word. According to you nothing in scripture means anything and Jesus' word are conditional to the whims of the Father. Your post has got to be one of the most preposterous things I have ever heard. |
|
|
|
Post by Cepha on Jun 8, 2009 12:37:46 GMT -5
God cannot say "this WILL happen" or "I WILL do this" and then not do it. That would be lieing...... Like when He first cursed man to eternal death, then sent Jesus to save mankind? |
|
|
|
Post by emily445455 on Jun 8, 2009 12:38:54 GMT -5
We still die, physically...and we are still dead spiritually until we accept Christ.
|
|
