God...

[Cepha]

Apr 12, 2008 4:40:38 GMT -5 knuckle said:

Hi guys----------------

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

is it just coincidence that YHVH is rendered LORD?

Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

according to catholic faith was Jehovah Father or Christ?


much love------------knuckle

First of all, the word "jehovah" does not appear in The Holy Bible. It is a mistranslation, so if you are referring to God as jehovah, it is misnaming God.

God doesn't need a name to distinguish Him from other "gods". That's why when he was asked what name He should be known by, He replied simply that "I Am".

I am what? God. That's it...no name neccessarly.

If there is only one horse in a corral, he won't need a name. When you call him, he'll be the only one to come to you.

Now, having said that, God is "God The Father, God The Son and God The Holy Spirit. All are 1. Jesus never referred to God by any other name.

[Cepha]

Apr 10, 2008 22:28:39 GMT -5 I.M.Apologetics said:

Surely Mary is NOT the Mother of God the Father. She is the Mother of God as in Jesus Christ, not because she gave Him His divinity (humanity can never bring about divinity, just as a pear-tree cannot produce oranges), but because Jesus is God.

If it is the same God how can one be greater?
That seems to be contradiction to me.

Oooo.

I missed this one. Of course Mary is not God The Father's mother.

Mary is only Jesus' biological mother (Jesus The Man, not Jesus as part of God only).

[Cepha]

Apr 12, 2008 7:52:28 GMT -5 emily445455 said:

Cepha, I already gave you an answer...no, Mary was not God the Father's mother. She was Jesus's earthly mother.

I know that...but, I was just testing your biblical literalness.

I just like to see "where" some religious groups decide something is literal and where some decide its figurative.

;D

[Cepha]

Apr 12, 2008 15:13:31 GMT -5 I.M.Apologetics said:

Philosophically and theologically I don't think the argument stands.
God is simple, there are no parts to Him. He is one, not three. One "part" of Him cannot be lesser.

Not "lesser", but subordinate (that is, according to Jesus Christ).

Just as our hand is subordinate to our mind. Still part of the same body, but it is the mind that tells the hand what to do, not vice/versa.

[I.M.Apologetics]

I AM also signifies God's existance and nature, unending, ever-present, omnipresent.
This is why Jesus says "before Moses was, I AM", which shows that He existed before anything existed.
God is not bound to time.

[I.M.Apologetics]

The Name giving (YHW: I AM who am) is also a show how God reached down to Moses, revealing Himself through His Name, just as when we meet somebody new we introduce ourselves if we really want them to know us... Else we just say hi from the distance.

[I.M.Apologetics]

Hmm.
subordinate as in subject to the Father?
I still have trouble with this. Seems like high point of theology, those of which you end up uttering heresy if you go too far.

[Cepha]

Apr 12, 2008 15:36:32 GMT -5 I.M.Apologetics said:

Hmm.
subordinate as in subject to the Father?
I still have trouble with this. Seems like high point of theology, those of which you end up uttering heresy if you go too far.

Well, let us see what The Head Theologian in Charge says about this:

Luke 22:42
Saying, "Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done."

John 5:30
"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just;
because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me."

[knuckle]

so you guys are trinitarian?

[Cepha]

Apr 12, 2008 21:16:51 GMT -5 knuckle said:

so you guys are trinitarian?

Before I answer yes or no, I have to know what trinitarian means.

I believe that The 3 Persons are one. Equal in being One. But, The Father is from where the other two preceed "from". He is their source. Jesus and The Holy Spirit existed before time, but there is nothing to tell us who came first or if they all always existed or if one begat the other.

Just by the language of Jesus in calling God The Father, a reasonable person could assume that God The Father was before God The Son.

But I'd get a headache if I tried to figure that one out.

So I don't even try.

[I.M.Apologetics]

yes, Jesus learned obedience through suffering.
His will was to do the will of the Father.

His humanity had to choose this (heresy??? hope not), but in His divinity He did not have to subject to His own will...

See, I think the problem is that you're treating Jesus' natures as one, but it is not so: one person, two natures.

[Cepha]

Well, when we talk of Christ, how do we talk about Him most of the time?

As a Man, right?

This doesn't have to separate Him from His Divine nature.

Just because He obeys God it doesn't neccessarily diminish His Divine nature. It makes sense. It's one agreeing with one's self. Make sense.

Jesus The Man doesn't have to be separated from God The Father to prove that He is subordinate as God The Son.

Remember, the relationship of a son is always subordinate to his father. We get this "from" their relationship itself as it was the first father/son relationship, so it tells us how to be and what to do and how to see the subordination of a son to his father.

Jesus The Son is subordinate to God The Father. He is at the same time divine. No condlict there.

[jacee]

Just wanted to note Cepha that you brought Mary into this discussion right away....tisk tisk

[Cepha]

Apr 17, 2008 0:08:45 GMT -5 jacee said:

Just wanted to note Cepha that you brought Mary into this discussion right away....tisk tisk

Ahhh, the benefits of a Forum where we have free speech and aren't censored by denominational zealots.

Without censorship, all kinds of topics in all sorts of ways are discussed freely and in an open manner.

There'll be no limiting here to just what dogma the Forum's owner wants to impose on others like the intolerant sites elsewhere.

Jesus was never afraid to talk about His mother. We won't be.

;D

By the way, I was talking about God's mother (who happened to be Mary) in the context of God's Trinitarian nature.

Of course, you would ignore how I was talking about God and zero your focus in on Mary.

I'd like to point out that you lost track of God as the center of the discussion and focused on Mary.

Try to focus on God in this thread.

[jacee]

I lost track of your forum....lol and then could not see what was written because of the intense blue. Glad it is white now.

I am not afraid to speak of Mary either....but it is Jesus who has saved all the world. And Mary would say...listen to Him.

[cradlecathlic27]

Apr 20, 2008 22:04:18 GMT -5 jacee said:

I lost track of your forum....lol and then could not see what was written because of the intense blue. Glad it is white now.

I am not afraid to speak of Mary either....but it is Jesus who has saved all the world. And Mary would say...listen to Him.

Of course he did and of course Mary would say that. No one argues that.

[Cepha]

Apr 20, 2008 22:04:18 GMT -5 jacee said:

I lost track of your forum....lol and then could not see what was written because of the intense blue. Glad it is white now.

I am not afraid to speak of Mary either....but it is Jesus who has saved all the world. And Mary would say...listen to Him.

Why are Protestants the only ones who always place the words "Mary" and "save" in the same sentence?

No one but Protestants ever stated that Mary saved anybody, so why bring it up? For that case, you might as well say that Mohammed doesn't save or Saint Paul.

It's like such an unneccessary statement and 99% of the time, it's out of context of the exchanges.

[Cepha]

Apr 20, 2008 22:04:18 GMT -5 jacee said:

I lost track of your forum....lol and then could not see what was written because of the intense blue. Glad it is white now.

I am not afraid to speak of Mary either....but it is Jesus who has saved all the world. And Mary would say...listen to Him.

Jacee,

Have you ever, ever, ever heard a Catholic ever say that Mary saves?

[jacee]

No Cepha I haven't. But, I've heard them say that Mary is actually above Jesus. That Mary was born without an inheritent sin nature. That would make her above Him since He was both flesh and deity. And that I cannot understand. If that is so about Mary, then Jesus was completely deity. And there has not been an exchange at the cross for mankind.

[knuckle]

Hi Cepha------------

did you know that Mohammad actually thought that Christians worshiped Mary as the third part of the trinity?

much love-------------knuckle