God...

[Cepha]

I'd like to see more talk on God.

I'd love to see this thread light up like the Marian thread has and surpass her thread (there seems to be such and unhealthy devotion to belittling and to attacking her).

It's evident that Jesus is less important than Mary to some because most of the responses here are focused on Mary unfortunately and that has led to more and more discussion of her.

But even greater than Jesus is God The Father. All 3 are 1, yes (along with The Holy Spirit), but only 1 is superior. God to Whom Jesus and The Holy Spirit are subject.

Denominational Christians almost never talk about God.

In this Forum, we are going to focus on God.

Like Jesus does.

;D

[emily445455]

Hmm..I'd say at my church we talk about God and Jesus equally.

Right now we are studying Genesis...it is SOOOO amazing what God did. I love the first line of the Bible "In the beginning God created..." Amen. It's sad how people don't believe Genesis. They in a sense, make God less powerful by saying it was a myth and evolution happened instead...

[cradlecathlic27]

I used to believe we came from monkeys....lol But now i know how much more complex we humans are and noone but God could have made us.

[Cepha]

Apr 10, 2008 8:47:07 GMT -5 emily445455 said:

Hmm..I'd say at my church we talk about God and Jesus equally.

Right now we are studying Genesis...it is SOOOO amazing what God did. I love the first line of the Bible "In the beginning God created..." Amen. It's sad how people don't believe Genesis. They in a sense, make God less powerful by saying it was a myth and evolution happened instead...

I can't tell what goes on in your church personally, but from what I've seen on their website at www.fbcj.com/about_believe.htm , of the 13 points, only 1 is devoted to God.
They also have one devoted to the Devil & to Jesus and but they devote "8" points to what they "don't" believe.

They talk more about what they don't believe than they do about God.

I'd say your church is a bible-centered church where the focus is on a book more than on God.

The only time that God has more presence than Jesus is in The Depravity of Man point, but on every other point, Jesus is placed "before" God and is the focus of the point. Most don't even mention God at all.

This is an honor that even Jesus didn't give Himself. According to Jesus, He does nothing of His own will, but only of God's will.

If the site was being Christian, then they'd do the same thing Jesus did (place God above Jesus), but by placing Jesus above God, they are "not" being Christian.

The focus of Christiantiy isn't upon Jesus Christ, but upon God.

Some might say that their the same thing, but Jesus separates Himself from God when it comes to authority and to Whom is superior.

God comes before Jesus.

Jesus is "just" a vessel to bring God' message. The only reason that Jesus is even worshipped is because He is "part of" God The Father. It is through God's power (not His own) that Jesus saves.

[emily445455]

I meant in actual church services. But then again...when we say "Jesus" was also mean "God" since they are one.

God didn't come before Jesus...all three parts of the God-head always were and always will be. They all created, they are 3 but 1. Thus, they are equal.

[Cepha]

Apr 10, 2008 10:15:44 GMT -5 emily445455 said:

I meant in actual church services. But then again...when we say "Jesus" was also mean "God" since they are one.

God didn't come before Jesus...all three parts of the God-head always were and always will be. They all created, they are 3 but 1. Thus, they are equal.

Then, Mary is God The Father's Mother too?

Or do you make a separate exception when it comes to that particular subject?

John says that Jesus was with God in the beginning, but that is talking about the beginning of time (not the beginning of existance).

Jesus is "The Son" of God. A son never is born or exists before a father. Therefore, Jesus came after God.

[emily445455]

I don't understand the Trinity...nor do I think I ever will. They are seperate, yet one at the same time. Jesus always was, is, and will be...with God the Father. They are all God, they are all one but have different jobs.

I like to think of an egg: yolk, white, and shell. 3 parts, 1 egg. I will never totally understand it...but really, I don't think I have to. God is so powerful, just, loving, perfect...my little sinnful mind will never be able to totally understand or grasp Him.

[Cepha]

Apr 10, 2008 10:44:46 GMT -5 emily445455 said:

I don't understand the Trinity...nor do I think I ever will. They are seperate, yet one at the same time. Jesus always was, is, and will be...with God the Father. They are all God, they are all one but have different jobs.

I like to think of an egg: yolk, white, and shell. 3 parts, 1 egg. I will never totally understand it...but really, I don't think I have to. God is so powerful, just, loving, perfect...my little sinnful mind will never be able to totally understand or grasp Him.

Then when Elisabeth calls Mary The Lord's mother,
she is God's mother if all 3 are 1, right?

[emily445455]

No...like I said, they are seperate, but one. They have seperate jobs, but they are still 1 God. I do not fully understand it...so I probably won't be able to answer your questions very well.

[Cepha]

Apr 10, 2008 10:53:28 GMT -5 emily445455 said:

No...like I said, they are seperate, but one. They have seperate jobs, but they are still 1 God. I do not fully understand it...so I probably won't be able to answer your questions very well.

That's actually a great answer M. I think you worded it well.

Sorry, I didn't remember seeing you write that they are different. I saw you write that they had different jobs, but not that they were separate beings.

I saw you write that they are one, that when you say Jesus, you mean God too.

[Cepha]

You basically believe that "sometimes" their one and "sometimes" their 3...

...depending on what it is you're trying to prove?

Like when your church fails to mention God in their website as much as Jesus, they are automatically including God when they say Jesus?

But when Scripture says Lord, it doesn't mean God The Father?

Or at least "not" in the one particular instance where Mary is called the mother of The Lord by The Word of God?

[emily445455]

Yes, when my church says "Jesus" we also mean God. Unless we're talking about Salvation...because that was by Jesus to the Father.

[Cepha]

Apr 10, 2008 20:50:45 GMT -5 emily445455 said:

Yes, when my church says "Jesus" we also mean God. Unless we're talking about Salvation...because that was by Jesus to the Father.

But salvation is a work of Jesus.

Not an identity.

Now... since his identity "is" God, doesn't that make Mary God's mother too?

LOL! You know I'm just hounding you until you give me an answer!

I'm not even supposed to be talking about Mary here!

;D

[I.M.Apologetics]

Cepha, I am not sure about what you're saying.
Nicene-Creed says about Jesus "God from God, Light from Light, True God from True God".
It nowhere states that God the Father is superior in anyways.

I do not think this is plausible and possible.

The Creed also states, "We believe in the Holy Spirit...With the Father and the Son is worshiped and glorified", which in the Latin (and Spanish) reads that He receives the same adoration and glory: "Qui cum Patre et Fílio simul adorátur et conglorificátur" (simul: "at the same time") "QUE CON EL PADRE Y EL HIJO RECIBE UNA MISMA ADORACIÓN Y GLORIA"

So, if the Holy Spirit recives the same adoration as the Father and the Son, it means that the Father and the Son receive the same adoration (plus that the Son is "God from God").

[I.M.Apologetics]

Also see the condamnation by the original Nicene Creed (325) (before being modified at Constantinople [381]):
But those who say: 'There was a time when he was not;' and 'He was not before he was made;' and 'He was made out of nothing,' or 'He is of another substance' or 'essence,' or 'The Son of God is created,' or 'changeable,' or 'alterable' — they are condemned by the holy catholic and apostolic Church.]

[I.M.Apologetics]

Surely Mary is NOT the Mother of God the Father. She is the Mother of God as in Jesus Christ, not because she gave Him His divinity (humanity can never bring about divinity, just as a pear-tree cannot produce oranges), but because Jesus is God.

If it is the same God how can one be greater?
That seems to be contradiction to me.

[Cepha]

IMA,

We're supposed to understand the Creed according to The Scripture, not the Scripture according to The Creed.

Flip the authority and it will be clear.

All 3 are 1. But 2 of the 3 are subject to The Father.

[knuckle]

Hi guys----------------

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

is it just coincidence that YHVH is rendered LORD?

Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Joh 5:37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.

according to catholic faith was Jehovah Father or Christ?


much love------------knuckle

[emily445455]

Cepha, I already gave you an answer...no, Mary was not God the Father's mother. She was Jesus's earthly mother.

[I.M.Apologetics]

Philosophically and theologically I don't think the argument stands.
God is simple, there are no parts to Him. He is one, not three. One "part" of Him cannot be lesser.