Romans

[redsoxfan]

Well I was on the other site talking to KJB and apparently I confused everyone as to what works was refering to in St. Paul's letter to the Romans.

Someone please give me thier take on it, so I can find out if I'm too far out in left field.

Thanks!
~RSF

[Cepha]

Apr 11, 2008 22:32:30 GMT -5 redsoxfan said:

Well I was on the other site talking to KJB and apparently I confused everyone as to what works was refering to in St. Paul's letter to the Romans.

Someone please give me thier take on it, so I can find out if I'm too far out in left field.

Thanks!
~RSF

Chapter & Verse?

Or situation?

Also, Romans 2 is a great proof that even non-believers will get into heaven if they please God by how they live without The Law.

[knuckle]

Hi RSF-------------

Paul is talking about keeping the ordinances of the Levitical law not to be confused with the works of James and the law of liberty

much love-------------knuckle

[redsoxfan]

heya Cephas,

Basically what I was trying to say that confused people is that the works that St. Paul is talking include following the law on dietary and male circumcision are no longer required since Christ's ministry on earth.
In essence St. Paul was saying these old works will not save you but Faith in Christ is what will save you.
There wasn't an exact chapter that I was trying to comment on but the whole work.

Heya Knuckles,
I agree exactly with that and I was trying to make a similar statement but made the mistake of mentioning specific "works". I think that's where I messed up.

Thanks you two!


~RSF

[Cepha]

Cool beans! ;D

[Cepha]

Aug 7, 2008 12:40:20 GMT -5 watchman said:

Apr 12, 2008 3:28:40 GMT -5 Cepha said:

Also, Romans 2 is a great proof that even non-believers will get into heaven if they please God by how they live without The Law.

This is an anti biblical statement, no true christian that believes the bible and or the words of Jesus or Apostles would believe such a thing.

You should never ever teach such a thing.

The Bible literally says this in Romans 2 when it talks about two groups that at the time were the difference between those that had access to Heaven because they were Jewish and were Believers and those that didn't because they were Gentiles and non-Believers. The Bible clearly states that the non-Believer would justified to God (saved) while the Believer that doesn't live The Word of God out would be condemned to hell. Why? Because both have The Word of God written on their hearts (as all mankind has, Believer or not) and it is obedience to His Word written one's heart that will save one...not just "believing" while "not" living out His Word.

It talks about the hypocrisy of those who claim to be good enough to judge others on their personal beliefs "just" because they are Believers and have The Law (which for us would be The Gospel). It's about those who tought their personal relationship with God as some special permission to pass judgement as if they had the authority to tell others that they are wrong, while outrightly "not" displaying righteous behavior themselves (in other words, when their actions don't reflect Christ like behavior)...it talks about how some are look at this behavior and represent God in a bad light.

It basically states that the non-Believer that lives God's will will condemn the Believer that "doesn't" live God's will.

Romans 2:17-29 (NIV used for it's simplicity of text)

Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and brag about your relationship to God; if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law; if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself?

You who preach against stealing, do you steal?
You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery?
You who abhor idols, do you rob temples?
You who brag about the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law?
As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."

Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised.
If those who are not circumcised keep the law's requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised?
The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.

A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical.
No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code.
Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.

_____________________________________________________________________

And Jesus regularly used "non-Jews" to shame them for their behavior showing that it is not merely by being part of a group or not being part of a group that one reflects what God wants.

It is your actions that show what God wants (take the Good Samaritan story where a person who didn't believe in God did God's will by taking care of the man who was beaten while the Jews left him there to die).

This would be considered blasphemy because the Samaritans didn't believe in The Messiah like The Jews did (they had their own Messiah). This exact example in modern times would apply to Muslims.

But Jesus used them. So what does this teach us? That God's mercy encompasses all...not just any one specific group of people. It ain't just what one confesses or believes that saves you. It's also what you don't do or do.

Lucky for us.