jhardin
Junior Member
"...wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the (c)atholic (spiritual) Church." Ignatius 110 A.D.
Posts: 65
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Post by jhardin on May 29, 2008 1:16:30 GMT -5
I like reading books in my hands not on my computer screen! (talking about the responses to Em). You ain't seen nothing yet! LOL! You should see what I respond to JHardin! LOL! No... those aren't your responses. They are Karl Keatings predesigned responses to common Evangelical teachings. You just copy and paste them like a good puppet. When I start responding to Karl's ludicrous and unscholarly apologetics... a simply Catholic like you can't defend his points. www.gideonsword.net/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1388#1388 If I were you, I would be a little ticked off at Karl Keating for putting you in such a predicament. |
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Post by Cepha on May 29, 2008 4:26:09 GMT -5
And that's precisely why I shook the dust off my sandals from your exchanges.... ...you couldn't just make a point with including an insult. God bless you.  |
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jhardin
Junior Member
"...wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the (c)atholic (spiritual) Church." Ignatius 110 A.D.
Posts: 65
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Post by jhardin on May 29, 2008 23:52:35 GMT -5
And that's precisely why I shook the dust off my sandals from your exchanges.... ...you couldn't just make a point with including an insult. God bless you. OK. If that's what you want to think. I thank you for giving me the opportunity to find the fatal flaws of some more Catholic teaching, and post them on my forum for the whole world to see. We had some good debates... but the truth always prevails. |
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Post by Cepha on May 30, 2008 5:11:15 GMT -5
And that's precisely why I shook the dust off my sandals from your exchanges.... ...you couldn't just make a point with including an insult. God bless you. OK. If that's what you want to think. I thank you for giving me the opportunity to find the fatal flaws of some more Catholic teaching, and post them on my forum for the whole world to see. We had some good debates... but the truth always prevails.  |
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Post by teresahrc on Sept 15, 2008 12:25:34 GMT -5
Oy vey! Um....so do protestants believe in the Church Fathers? When I was a protestant, some people were really excited about the "early church" and tried to copy them. Unfortunately, the didn't copy the IMPORTANT things! (they copied the "house church" thing, and the um....well, what did they copy?)
teresa
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Post by Cepha on Sept 19, 2008 9:55:06 GMT -5
Oy vey! Um....so do protestants believe in the Church Fathers? When I was a protestant, some people were really excited about the "early church" and tried to copy them. Unfortunately, the didn't copy the IMPORTANT things! (they copied the "house church" thing, and the um....well, what did they copy?) teresa LOL! The only time anti-Catholics will quote a Church Father is to try to disprove The Church or to show some kind of contradiction. Someone once tried to use Jerome on me! Jerome of all people! I was diein' laughin'! LOL! When I came back with all these "pro-Catholic" Jerome quotes, they never mentioned him again! LOL! |
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reformed
New Member
Sola Deo Gloria
Posts: 6
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Post by reformed on Nov 1, 2008 12:46:40 GMT -5
Protestants: Do you believe in The Church Fathers? If not, why not? If you attempt to say that you only go by The Bible, it was The Church Fathers who created The Bible, so why wouldn't you listen to men God chose to reveal His Word to? Are The Church Father's teachings credited to them in your church (Salvation, Justification, Trinity, etc...)? For example, does your religious leader state who it was that revealed the Doctrine of The Trinity (AD 325 Council of Nicea)? LOL, the Church fathers did not create the New Testament, they merely recognized it, as even Vatican I's dogmatic constitution on the catholic faith said. The Church fathers said ALL sorts of things. In fact, before the 4th century, the majority of the Church fathers were premillennial. Was this "Apostolic Tradition"? Was it also "Apostolic Tradition" that the majority of the Pre-Nicene fathers taught the freedom of the will of man's ability to have faith (i.e. Clement of Alexandria, Irenaeus, Justin Martyr etc.) It wasn't until the controversy between John Cassian, Vincent of Lerins and Augustine that the Semi-pelagian heresy was laid to rest. But even then, the Eastern Church still championed Cassian's beliefs, as they were "Apostolic".  P.S.: The doctrine of the Trinity was not revealed in Nicaea. Nicaea didn't "infallibly" define the deity of Christ either. The later Arian resurgency testifies to this fact of history. |
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Post by Cepha on Nov 4, 2008 10:10:26 GMT -5
LOL, the Church fathers did not create the New Testament, they merely recognized it, as even Vatican I's dogmatic constitution on the catholic faith said. First, let's define what The New Testament is...it is a collection of works deemed canonical by The Church. Right? Who "collected" those books and deemed them canonical? The Church. So, The Church Fathers "did" create the collection of The Books known as The New Testament. It never existed before they created the list that would go on to be canonized (officially recognized) by The Church and thus, worthy of Christian consumption. Everything that is canonized is. If it was canonical, yes, if not, no. That's why Jesus established a heirchy of religious leadership...to guide followerers and to deciminate what could be trusted and what couldn't be trusted to be believed. Maybe not, but when was it "canonized"? |
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Post by Reformedalt on Dec 17, 2008 14:37:27 GMT -5
The Church fathers did not create the canon. Even Vatican I disagrees with you. The Church fathers RECOGNIZED the canon created by God.
Vatican I said that as having God as their author, they were committed to the Church.
You're being anachronistic. Because all of the modern traditions of the Church were supposedly Apostolic Tradition, LONG before canonization.
Your implication is that before canonization, Arianism was fine to accept. That is not the case. The scriptures made it clear before the Arian controversy.
And BTW, Nicaea did not "Canonize" the Deity of Christ. Again, the later Arian councils confirm this.
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Dec 17, 2008 16:11:04 GMT -5
well, who did canonize the Bible?
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Post by Cepha on Dec 18, 2008 10:08:03 GMT -5
The Church fathers did not create the canon. Even Vatican I disagrees with you. The Church fathers RECOGNIZED the canon created by God. Vatican I said that as having God as their author, they were committed to the Church. That was never denied. But, who did God chose to reveal it to? |
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Post by Cepha on Dec 18, 2008 10:08:54 GMT -5
well, who did canonize the Bible? LOL! The Catholic Church "canonized" The Bible. God told them to do it and they did it. If they didn't do it, then we'd never know what was to be considered canonical. ;D |
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Post by Reformedalt on Dec 19, 2008 16:57:20 GMT -5
LOL! The Catholic Church "canonized" The Bible. God told them to do it and they did it. If they didn't do it, then we'd never know what was to be considered canonical. ;D Let me reconstruct your post with a couple words substituted. LOL!
The Sanhedrin "canonized" The Pentateuch.
God told them to do it and they did it.
If they didn't do it, then we'd never know what was to be considered canonical.
Now, according to your logic, the Sanhedrin had infallible authority, even in their Traditions, which Jesus rejected. |
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reformed
New Member
Sola Deo Gloria
Posts: 6
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Post by reformed on Dec 19, 2008 17:20:52 GMT -5
That was never denied. But, who did God chose to reveal it to? The Catholic (Universal) Church. The same Church that did not believe in the Immaculate Conception, Assumption of Mary, Indulgences etc. |
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Post by Cepha on Dec 20, 2008 16:42:45 GMT -5
Let me reconstruct your post with a couple words substituted. LOL!
The Sanhedrin "canonized" The Pentateuch. Actually, The Christian were using The Septuagint "before" The Jews ever canonized their scripture (which they wouldn't do until 70 AD). And we still use The Septuagint version, just as Jesus used it. It existed for a few centuries before the killers of Christ created their own canon. So God guided the killers or Christ? OK. [/i][/quote] Jesus' killers have their own canon, Christians ( and Jesus )used the canon that they (Jesus' killers) rejected...just like they rejected Jesus. But if you want to place your faith in Christ's killer's, go ahead. ;D Wrong...Jesus defended the religious leaders of their day saying they had the authority to teach because they were on the "seat of Moses". In fact, He taught when they taught The Word of God, His own followers were supposed to accept their teachings. |
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Post by Cepha on Dec 20, 2008 16:43:34 GMT -5
That was never denied. But, who did God chose to reveal it to? The Catholic (Universal) Church. The same Church that did not believe in the Immaculate Conception, Assumption of Mary, Indulgences etc. You mean the same Church that God revealed those things to didn't believe in them? That's odd. Proof? |
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