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Post by Cepha on May 14, 2008 8:40:59 GMT -5
If Martin Luther was doing God's work, why did he fail at his attempt to "re-form" The Catholic Church?
A man that works with God's approval, doesn't fail because God doesn't fail.
So, who was Martin Luther really serving while he thought he was serving God (supposing that he believed that he actually was serving God that is...don't want to place words in his mouth)?
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on May 14, 2008 10:02:54 GMT -5
What church or religous denomination did Martin Luther belong to, or start?
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Post by knuckle on May 14, 2008 15:19:49 GMT -5
Hi Cepha------------
outside of Luther's condemnation of a corrupt pope and his anti-semitic views what real problem do you have with him?What of his teaching is heresy in light of modern catholic belief?
Don't google a bunch of stuff just explain it to me in your own words---I am not being defensive but really want an insight into the differences.
much love---------------knuckle
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Post by Cepha on May 14, 2008 16:55:11 GMT -5
First off, I love Luther. He was a great loss to The Church. I don't have any problems with him.
He did his best to stop the can of worms that he he opened up. He tried to stop other Catholics from rebelling against The Church, but it took a life of it's own.
He was just a little nutty thinking that Satan talked to him directly. When one sees the results of his work, maybe it was true after all.
I can't speak for The Church. Speaking for myself, his adding words to The Bible (like "saved by faith ALONE" which was never in The Christian Bible until he put it in his versions), his invention of doctrines and his misleading other Christians along with his persecution of other Christians who didn't agree with him (like when he tried to burn Zwingli at the stake, etc...) are some of the things I personally disagree with him on.
Since when was Googling outlawed? Don't you Google stuff? I don't believe in limiting sources of information. Why would you?
What difference does it make where the information comes from so long as it's true?
And...all my insight is based on exterior sources. How can one form an opinion without information?
Pax
Oh, and again, I love Luther.
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Post by Cepha on May 14, 2008 16:57:33 GMT -5
What church or religous denomination did Martin Luther belong to, or start? He was a hard core Catholic. But he went and started his own church(es) and it ended up being followed by people who named this religion and this church after Luther (Lutheranism)...the same way that Christians name themselves after Christ. |
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Post by Cepha on May 14, 2008 16:58:53 GMT -5
Hi Cepha------------ outside of Luther's condemnation of a corrupt pope and his anti-semitic views what real problem do you have with him?What of his teaching is heresy in light of modern catholic belief? Don't google a bunch of stuff just explain it to me in your own words---I am not being defensive but really want an insight into the differences. much love---------------knuckle Now that I've answered your off topic questions, could you answer the topic question? "If Martin Luther was doing God's work, why did he fail at his attempt to "re-form" The Catholic Church?" (PS You can Google if you want to  ) |
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on May 14, 2008 17:05:41 GMT -5
To answer your question... God was or could not have been behind Luther since his church failed and broke apart. God would not start something and then have it split apart. He said there is one truth, not thousands...
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Post by Cepha on May 14, 2008 17:19:11 GMT -5
To answer your question... God was or could not have been behind Luther since his church failed and broke apart. God would not start something and then have it split apart. He said there is one truth, not thousands... 1 Corinthians 1 10Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. 11For it hath been declared unto me of you, my brethren, by them which are of the house of Chloe, that there are contentions among you. 12Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. 13Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul? |
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Post by knuckle on May 14, 2008 19:30:39 GMT -5
Hi Cepha---------------
I don't see where Luther was trying to reform the church as much as oust a corrupt pope.That is why I asked you not to google-----If he (Luther) had been born say in 1900 he would not have been labeled a reformer against "the church" but a defender of it's holiness.Then again Leo would not have gotten away the shenanigans he was pulling in the age of media we have today.I wanted my friends answer who happens to be catholic,rather than a response from a church that knuckle doesn't know.
Now I am going to have to ask How "catholic" are you guys?If today a pope was to say or do something that you yourself found "wrong" according to the bible(which we have access to and most of the folks in Luther's day did not) what would you do?I have seen the church speak out against the demons who posed as priests and are to be commended for it (a lot of protestant leaders were protected by their congregations when they should have been dragged through town as a heretic before the hanging),but if it was in the Vatican itself could you turn a blind eye?
Where does final authority rest,in the Pope or in the bible?
much love------------knuckle
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Post by Cepha on May 14, 2008 19:49:55 GMT -5
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Post by redsoxfan on May 15, 2008 12:08:16 GMT -5
Hi Cepha------------ outside of Luther's condemnation of a corrupt pope and his anti-semitic views what real problem do you have with him?What of his teaching is heresy in light of modern catholic belief? Don't google a bunch of stuff just explain it to me in your own words---I am not being defensive but really want an insight into the differences. much love---------------knuckle Hey Knuckle, From my point of view Luther started out well enough trying to reform the Church. It needs that every now and then. St. Francis of Assisi was a great example of this. The problem with Luther is that he became totally drunk with his own authority. He liked being in charge and what started as a reformation ended up in rebellion that has hurt mankind for centuries. That is my issue with him. ~RSF |
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Post by redsoxfan on May 15, 2008 12:10:15 GMT -5
It would be like the high minded french revolutionaries who ended up killing thousands at the head chopper. The revolution turned on itself. The same is true of Protestantism. =(
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Post by Cepha on May 15, 2008 13:01:09 GMT -5
Hi Cepha------------ outside of Luther's condemnation of a corrupt pope and his anti-semitic views what real problem do you have with him?What of his teaching is heresy in light of modern catholic belief? Don't google a bunch of stuff just explain it to me in your own words---I am not being defensive but really want an insight into the differences. much love---------------knuckle Hey Knuckle, From my point of view Luther started out well enough trying to reform the Church. It needs that every now and then. St. Francis of Assisi was a great example of this. The problem with Luther is that he became totally drunk with his own authority. He liked being in charge and what started as a reformation ended up in rebellion that has hurt mankind for centuries. That is my issue with him. ~RSF Agreed...besides, The Counter Reformation was the real way to work out The Church's problems...not by one starting their own churches (which coincidentally is what Luther also taught against). |
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Post by Cepha on May 15, 2008 13:02:52 GMT -5
It would be like the high minded french revolutionaries who ended up killing thousands at the head chopper. The revolution turned on itself. The same is true of Protestantism. =( Little known fact: Luther's Army killed more people in one attack (8,000 innocent women and children) on Rome than the entire Spanish Inquisition did in it's entirety.  |
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Post by doxology on Jul 8, 2009 23:42:28 GMT -5
It would be like the high minded french revolutionaries who ended up killing thousands at the head chopper. The revolution turned on itself. The same is true of Protestantism. =( Little known fact: Luther's Army killed more people in one attack (8,000 innocent women and children) on Rome than the entire Spanish Inquisition did in it's entirety. Luthers army in Rome.... I didnt think Luther had any army (he could of if he had supported the peasant revolt but he did not), Lutherans sacked Rome, but they were part of Charles the fifths standing army, and they sacked it cause I believe they didnt get payed properly. |
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Post by Cepha on Jul 9, 2009 10:00:03 GMT -5
Little known fact: Luther's Army killed more people in one attack (8,000 innocent women and children) on Rome than the entire Spanish Inquisition did in it's entirety. Luthers army in Rome.... I didnt think Luther had any army (he could of if he had supported the peasant revolt but he did not), Lutherans sacked Rome, but they were part of Charles the fifths standing army, and they sacked it cause I believe they didnt get payed properly. I'm so glad you're here Dox! LOL! You are a big ball of knowledge! LOL! Keep it coming! |
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Post by ravenonthecross on Jul 5, 2010 13:51:39 GMT -5
He has denied Transubstantiation [formulate at the III [?] Lateran Council], promoted the false doctrine of "external Justification" and Salvation by "faith alone," denied the authority of the Roman Pontiff slanderously calling him the "anti-christ" his followers of the Franciscans and Dominicans the locust-demon horde with Exterminans from the Book of the Apocalypse;
He also so rashly and contemptuously removed The Seven Deuterocanonical books, and tried to do the Same with: St. James, Hebrews, and Apocalypse!
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Post by thomasmcelwain on Nov 30, 2010 7:11:15 GMT -5
And on top of all that, he seduced a nun.... ;D
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