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Post by I.M.Apologetics on May 19, 2008 8:21:58 GMT -5
I haven't been here in a while so I don't know what's going on.
However, seen the name of this thread has *always* bothered me, as it advocates heresy, as though one could have "too much" of Jesus and as though Jesus and the Father were not one.
Also, the subtitle says that the most important person is God, as though Jesus was not God, which has been perhaps the biggest heresy on the Church - it still is alive in non-Christian groups such as the Jehovah's Witness, Mormons, and others who deny Jesus' divinity.
So while I do not suggest a new name, I plea for the current name to be changed to something that by no means suggests or advocates heresy.
Thank you, God bless.
Juan J.
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Post by Cepha on May 19, 2008 12:31:34 GMT -5
Hermano, That thread is to talk about the elimination of God in Christian language. Jesus The Son is also God, but Jesus The Son alone is not God entirely. God is The Triune God (not just Jesus). And Jesus would be the first one to pass on all glory to His Father. Too much Jesus at the expense of God The Father is just plain wrong. If it wasn't for God The Father, one couldn't even come "to" Jesus in the first place. God first, then Jesus.  |
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Post by I.M.Apologetics on May 21, 2008 1:10:31 GMT -5
no no, "no one can come to the Father except through Me"
"Me and the Father are one"
"I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life"
"He who hears me hears the Father"
and it goes on.
We cannot have too much of Jesus and we cannot go to the Father "first", because it is the Holy Spirit who moves us to go to Jesus, who is the way to the Father.
There is no such a thing as "too much Jesus", as one of the priests here at Ave said.
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Post by Cepha on May 21, 2008 7:38:59 GMT -5
no no, "no one can come to the Father except through Me" "Me and the Father are one" "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life" "He who hears me hears the Father" and it goes on. We cannot have too much of Jesus and we cannot go to the Father "first", because it is the Holy Spirit who moves us to go to Jesus, who is the way to the Father. There is no such a thing as "too much Jesus", as one of the priests here at Ave said. If you only have Jesus and don't have God, even Jesus will reject you. When you use my too much Jesus reference, use it in the context that it was stated...too much Jesus at the exclusion of God. As I said, if you only worship The Son and ignore The Father, The Son Himself will reject you. You couldn't have even have gottne to The Son without The Father (that is, according to Jesus. Without God, a Christian wouldn't even be brought to Jesus in the first place...they must have God first, then they go to Jesus. |
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Post by Cepha on May 21, 2008 7:48:02 GMT -5
Remember, even Jesus teaches us that no one can come to Him without God The Father initiating that.
Again...one must have God The Father first before they can have Jesus.
John 6:44
"No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day."
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Post by I.M.Apologetics on May 21, 2008 20:00:21 GMT -5
Indeed, but still there is no such thing as "too much Jesus" and "not enough God the Father" when you are doing true worship to Christ.
It is just like the true devotion to Mary: to Protestants even *that* seems to be taking away from Jesus, but we well know that this isn't the case, even if the devotion seems to be directed primarily to Mary.
Likewise, in worshiping Christ and referring to Him first, there is nothing excluding the Father, lets we truly meant to exclude the Father.
See the Mass: its focal (right word?) and most important point is the Eucharist, and the Eucharist is Jesus.
Yet in this worship to Jesus, the Sacrifice of Jesus is offered to God the Father.
Just as one may refer to Mary as the Gate of Heaven (as some Pope has said) and yet not deny that Jesus is the Way (the only Way), one can refer to Jesus and not forsake the Father.
The same with the saints.
Unless you truly are worshipping the saints, then you are still rendering honor to God through the saints.
So it remains that there is no such thing as "too much Jesus" and a name that doesn't suggest heresy should be put instead.
It is not so much the idea of the forum which I oppose, but the name, which seems to advocate heresy.
Pax Christi - adoration time!
Juan J.
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Post by Cepha on May 21, 2008 21:24:33 GMT -5
Indeed, but still there is no such thing as "too much Jesus" and "not enough God the Father" when you are doing true worship to Christ. It is just like the true devotion to Mary: to Protestants even *that* seems to be taking away from Jesus, but we well know that this isn't the case, even if the devotion seems to be directed primarily to Mary. Likewise, in worshiping Christ and referring to Him first, there is nothing excluding the Father, lets we truly meant to exclude the Father. See the Mass: its focal (right word?) and most important point is the Eucharist, and the Eucharist is Jesus. Yet in this worship to Jesus, the Sacrifice of Jesus is offered to God the Father. Just as one may refer to Mary as the Gate of Heaven (as some Pope has said) and yet not deny that Jesus is the Way (the only Way), one can refer to Jesus and not forsake the Father. The same with the saints. Unless you truly are worshipping the saints, then you are still rendering honor to God through the saints. So it remains that there is no such thing as "too much Jesus" and a name that doesn't suggest heresy should be put instead. It is not so much the idea of the forum which I oppose, but the name, which seems to advocate heresy. Pax Christi - adoration time! Juan J. But...the sacrifice isn't "to" Jesus, but "to" God. Right? |
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Post by Cepha on May 21, 2008 21:49:49 GMT -5
IMA, what name are you talking about?
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Post by I.M.Apologetics on Jun 4, 2008 23:06:32 GMT -5
"Not enough God The Father...
Thread devoted to the most important topic on this Forum...God."
"Not enough God the Father" pressuposes "too much God the Son", which is a heretical statement, for the reasons I explained above.
And the latter part puts "God" as only referring to "God the Father", since the title is "God the Father"
--
And yes, the Mass is offered to the Father, with the most important part being Jesus in the Eucharist.
I guess the Mass is what we have to set things straight: proper worship to God the Father through the Son with the Holy Spirit.
All equally praised.
Pax Domini!
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