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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Aug 7, 2008 12:36:15 GMT -5
This question is for all the protestants here.
What is something about our faith that is true, or as some would say...from the Bible?
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Post by righteousone on Aug 9, 2008 7:48:04 GMT -5
Oh BTW, you only left out the 99 other verses that completes his church, the Catholic church...hello?
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Aug 9, 2008 15:23:19 GMT -5
Yes Jesus is the only way to salvation, but just believing in him will not do it. You must have faith and obedience to his words.
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Post by Cepha on Aug 9, 2008 15:42:02 GMT -5
Salvation for all mankind from "original" sin came from His sacrifice. Not just "some" mankind, not for sects that didn't exist yet, but for all mankind. There is no doubt about that. It is an unconditional gift.  |
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Post by Cepha on Aug 9, 2008 17:52:59 GMT -5
Salvation for all mankind from "original" sin came from His sacrifice. Not just "some" mankind, not for sects that didn't exist yet, but for all mankind. There is no doubt about that. It is an unconditional gift. Are you saying everyone will eventually be saved? No. And... Saved from what? Original sin? Or eternal salvation? Jesus didn't die for OSAS, He died for "original sin". Even Believers who've accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Lord & Savior are condemned to eternal damnation. |
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Post by righteousone on Aug 9, 2008 18:20:26 GMT -5
There is no salvation outside the Catholic church.
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Post by Cepha on Aug 9, 2008 18:27:20 GMT -5
There is no salvation outside the Catholic church. Yes there is...according "to" The Catholic Church that is. Read The Catechism of The Catholic Church. "Outside the Church there is no salvation" 846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers? [Cf. Cyprian, Ep. 73.21: PL 3, 1169; De unit.: PL 4, 509-536] Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body: [161, 1257] Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.[LG 14; cf. Mk 16:16; Jn 3:5] 847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church: Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation. [LG 16; cf. DS 3866-3872] 848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men." [AG 7; cf. Heb 11:6; 1 Cor 9:16] [1260] |
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Post by Cepha on Aug 9, 2008 19:07:57 GMT -5
No. And... Saved from what? Original sin? Or eternal salvation? Jesus didn't die for OSAS, He died for "original sin". Even Believers who've accepted Jesus Christ as their personal Lord & Savior are condemned to eternal damnation. So the gift of eternal life is conditional. Then it's "not" a gift. gift –noun 1. something given voluntarily without payment in return, as to show favor toward someone, honor an occasion, or make a gesture of assistance; present. 2. the act of giving. 3. something bestowed or acquired without any particular effort by the recipient or without its being earned: Those extra points he got in the game were a total gift. 4. a special ability or capacity; natural endowment; talent: the gift of saying the right thing at the right time. –verb (used with object) 5. to present with as a gift; bestow gifts upon; endow with. 6. to present (someone) with a gift: just the thing to gift the newlyweds. dictionary.reference.com/browse/gift |
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Post by Cepha on Aug 9, 2008 19:31:50 GMT -5
Romans6:23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is life eternal through our Lord Jesus Christ. You say this gift is not condition, yet you say not all will receive it. Which is it a free gift, or conditional? will all gain eternal life, or must we do something to receive this gift? I believe Salvation is a "gift". It is not something to be traded for (a bargaining chip..."believe in me, and I'll give you salvation"). Why? Because then Jesus wouldn't have died for all mankind then, but only Believers. Remember, it can't be both ways. He died for all mankind, BUT, only the "all" mankind that Believes. dictionary.reference.com/browse/giftgift –noun 1. something given voluntarily without payment in return, as to show favor toward someone, honor an occasion, or make a gesture of assistance; present. 2. the act of giving. 3. something bestowed or acquired without any particular effort by the recipient or without its being earned: Those extra points he got in the game were a total gift. 4. a special ability or capacity; natural endowment; talent: the gift of saying the right thing at the right time. –verb (used with object) 5. to present with as a gift; bestow gifts upon; endow with. 6. to present (someone) with a gift: just the thing to gift the newlyweds. |
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Post by Cepha on Aug 9, 2008 19:33:06 GMT -5
"...but the gift of God is life eternal through our Lord Jesus Christ."
gift
gift
gift
gift
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Post by Cepha on Aug 9, 2008 20:02:38 GMT -5
So you believe all will be saved? Again...no. |
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Post by Cepha on Aug 9, 2008 20:48:24 GMT -5
so if it is a free gift to everyone regardless of whether you believe or not then how are some not saved? Take the Muslim who is charitable based on his understanding of his faith he lives a Christlike life in that he fulfills everything Jesus us to do. Only, he doesn't see Jesus as Christians do or as Jesus taught. Now, take the Bible Believin' Born Again Christian Pedophile who practices racism and doesn't live what Jesus taught. I believe that the one of those two that "lives" The Word of God that is written in his heart will be justified to God (as Romans 2 teaches). I believe that the one who claims to live His Word, yet doesn't "live" His Word will be cast to eternal damnation (just like those Christians that Jesus sent to hell in the parable of The Sheep & The Goats). Their faith didn't save them. Hell is going to be full of Christians and Jews and Muslims and Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses. Heaven will be full of God's children. Why no Christians and Jews and Muslims and Mormons and Jehovah's Witnesses there in Heaven? Because religion only serves it's purpose on earth. Anybody in Heaven will be of one mind...like The Bible teaches us to be while here (Paul, Corinthians...Divisions in The Church). A Christian was beaten and robbed and left for dead. A Pastor and a Priest walk by past him leaving him there. A Muslim comes by and sees him and has mercy on him and nurses him back to health providing of his own finances to heal him. Which of these did God's will to that fallen Christian? Which of these didn't do God's will to that fallen Christian? Which will God be more willing to forgive in your opinion? The one who was Jesus' definition of a neighbor in his deeds? Or the two that weren't Jesus' definition of neighbors? |
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Post by Cepha on Aug 9, 2008 22:25:19 GMT -5
Those that believe in the Bible and claims Christ yet live in sin, will indeed be in hell. So will the muslim that dioes not accept Christ no matter how good you may think they are. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God ''Romans 3:23'' No one can live a Christlike sinless life, therefore all need to come through Christ for forgiveness. I asked you a question before and I don't remember you answering it. Here it is again... When Jesus died on The Cross, was it for original sin or some other type of sin (eternal sin)? Or for all sin (past, present, future) of only Believers? And, if a person sins after accepting Jesus Christ as their personal Lord & Savior, do they lost that salvation? (You know, the whole OSAS argument) |
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Post by Cepha on Aug 9, 2008 22:40:01 GMT -5
Jesus died for all sin of all people, and if you continue to habitually sin unrepentantly after accepting Jesus as your Lord and Savior, you will forfeit your salvation. Where'd you get this belief from? And, I believe that you just stated that Jesus "didn't" die for only original sin, right? |
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Aug 10, 2008 15:05:12 GMT -5
It is a free gift, but you have to take the gift and do something with it! Some choose not to...
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Post by Cepha on Aug 10, 2008 15:19:28 GMT -5
So then, there's no price to pay for that gift, right?
And, it was given to all mankind (regardless of race, creed, color or religion), right?
Does the Bible exclude anyone from the gift of Jesus sacrifice for original sin?
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Aug 10, 2008 22:46:12 GMT -5
No one is excluded, people choose to believe in Him or not in Him. Its is left up to the individual.
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Aug 11, 2008 10:15:04 GMT -5
sorry
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Post by Cepha on Aug 11, 2008 10:17:46 GMT -5
The "gift" wasn't "believe in me".
The "gift" was salvation.
A person cannot deny salvation once it's given.
And it was given to all mankind so it cannot be returned (humans can't save Christ).
Therfore, once the gift for all mankind was given, it was absolute.
Just like scripture says...He died for all mankind.
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Post by Cepha on Aug 11, 2008 11:04:02 GMT -5
The "gift" wasn't "believe in me". The "gift" was salvation. A person cannot deny salvation once it's given. And it was given to all mankind so it cannot be returned (humans can't save Christ). Therfore, once the gift for all mankind was given, it was absolute. Just like scripture says...He died for all mankind. You are twisted, you say things such as this, yet you do not believe in OSAS (nor do I) and you do not believe that all will be saved (nor do I), but your argument are those of the OSAS believer and the universalist. Do you not know what your are saying or do you just want to be contradictory to any rational christian belief? That "gift" was for original sin. After that, it's up to us to work our salvation. Believing doesn't guarantee you heaven. Living a God's will does. At least, that's what The Bible says. |
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