Praying for others' conversion

[I.M.Apologetics]

When engaging in apologetics, should one pray for the other person's conversion to ONE's own stance/religion/denomination, or just a conversion of heart, closer to God?

I believe the latter is the correct, holy, and honest way, because it not only proves to be selfless (and therefore out of love, which in itself is selfless), but makes God the main focus of the conversion, not onself or one's religion.

Yet... Many times people who first come to Christ (which is the most important step in a person's conversion) are happy with just that and do not seek to go deeper.
For us Catholics, this isn't the best it could be, as the person is still missing out of the fullness of God's truth.

I guess for Protestants is the same. If they pray for someone to come to Christ and they come to the Catholic Church, I think the Protestant would fear that they came to Christ but are about to be "indoctrinated" or something...

--

What are your views?
Where do you agree, where do you disagree?

[knuckle]

Hi IM---------------

When I pray my prayer is about that person comes to Jesus.Jesus isn't hard to find --folks find Him in catholic churches,baptist churches,kingdom halls just about any church in America and probably around the world.

As for this denomination or that doctrine none of that saves,only Jesus saves so it really isn't a big deal.I invite folks to go to church with me and if they say well I am (what ever denomination cause mom and dad go there blah blah) I reply then I will go with you to that church---be at your house around...?

Some have gotten mad when I show up too


much love-------------knuckle

[cradlecathlic27]

lol

[I.M.Apologetics]

Knuck, (and everyone else),
That was an honest answer, as well as a very modern-protestant answer.
Should I be right, I think Luther and the other Reformers would give a different answer.
In fact, some modern Protestants would give a different answer, but not like the one of a Catholic, Orthodox or Reformer, but as a very anti-Catholic one (i.e. Jesus would not be found in the Catholic Church).

But, think like a Reformer or even a Catholic.
Get into this mindset, so that you may see the depth of the simple question (which has a simple answer, which you did provide).
If you were Lutheran, or Calvinist, or Eastern Orthodox, or Western Catholic... If you truly believed that Jesus established ONE Church, and your church is this one, how would you answer the question?

The dilemma is this,
Jesus is the way and the only way. Jesus saves, He died for us. His Church does not save, per se, and neither did the Church die for our sins.
Yet as one loves Jesus, one loves His true Church.
Say that this Church is indeed the fulness of the Truth, the fullness of Christ, and that any other church besides that one is not necessarily false, but just does not give the full Christ.

Wouldn't you want the person to be in this Church?
After all, we only desire that they know Jesus Christ (the whole Christ) and be saved, and so wouldn't we necessarily want them to be in *our* Church because this *is* the Church that Christ Himself established?

--

I am not asking to see if this idea is true or not: if you think it true you would be Catholic (or have Catholic-like way of thinking).
I am asking that, if this position was to be true, how would you personally answer the initial question?

I personally think that a deist is better than an atheist, that a theist is better than a deist, that a Muslim or Buddhist or Jew is better than a theist, that a new-born Christian is better than a Muslim or Buddhist or Jew.
The issue comes within Christianity.
I rather have a friend be part of modern protestantism (or non-denominationalism), which though very flawed and watered down still holds Christ, than Mormon or Jehovah's Witness.

And of course I rather have my friend be Catholic than Protestant, but Jesus is indeed more important than denomination, though again, if the Catholic Church (or whatever church) is indeed the true Church of Christ, then I would want my friend to be in the fullness of the truth instead of just a little of the truth...

What about you?

--

Pax Christi,
Juan J.

[knuckle]

Hi Juan----------------

I once might have answered as you have but from where I stand now I know of no church that fit the criteria (I know individuals who are walking the Spirit filled life ) but to say this group or that group is "the one unerring perfect church" I can not say that.In a way I envy the passion you hold for the CC as I do the pastor of the Baptist church I attend for the passion he has for his

much love------------------knuckle

[cradlecathlic27]

Baptists dont believe in saints from what i understand?

[Cepha]

Aug 18, 2008 21:01:22 GMT -5 cradlecathlic27 said:

Baptists dont believe in saints from what i understand?

I think to them, all Christians are Saints (even though that term has only been addressed to Christians who were either Church Leaders or who've passed on to Heaven).