Tongues

[teresahrc]

Does anyone know what the Official Church teaching is on tongues?

teresa

[Cepha]

Sept 15, 2008 12:14:07 GMT -5 @teresahrc said:

Does anyone know what the Official Church teaching is on tongues?

teresa

Yeah...don't do it!

LOL!

Seriously though, I believe that among Catholics Charismatics, it's an acceptable practice for them "by" The Church. I don't think it's banned or anything like that, but I don't think it is accepted as a mainstream.

Nuns and Religious have always prayed in manners that were not understandable to those who heard them.

This was called being enraptured in prayer.

I've done it when deep in prayer.

I begin to pray these beautiful prayers that come from my heart that I don't think I could've ever have said.

[Ramon]

It is acceptable within Catholicism, although some die hard traditionalist will disagree with the whole "Catholic Charismatic Movement".

Even within Orthodoxy, it is acceptable (to a degree). We Orthodox don't rule out the gift of speaking in tongues, but we just regard it as a minor gift, as did Saint Paul (1 Cor 14). Even when it is used, it is a private and personal gift, a lower form of prayer.

"I thank God that I speak in strange tongues much more than any of you. But in Church worship I would rather speak five words that can be understood, in order to teach others, than speak thou sands of words in strange tongues." (1 Cor 14:18-19)

I believe we need to be careful with this gift, Saint Paul repeating cautions the Corinthian Christians about excessive use of "Glossolalia"; especially to the exclusion of the other more important gifts. It has been widely abuse by many ever since the Charismatic movement.

It is certainity not banned within Orthodoxy and Catholicism, but it is not something we should be obsessed with.

Blessings,
Ramon

[teresahrc]

believe we need to be careful with this gift, Saint Paul repeating cautions the Corinthian Christians about excessive use of "Glossolalia"; especially to the exclusion of the other more important gifts. It has been widely abuse by many ever since the Charismatic movement.

It is certainity not banned within Orthodoxy and Catholicism, but it is not something we should be obsessed with.

I agree. I have actually heard people say that people aren't "saved" if they don't speak in tongues! Yikes.


teresa

[Cepha]

Hey guys, still don't have web service where I'm at yet, but once I do, I'll be back regularly.

Now, on the whole tongues thing, let's not confuse with the immediate ability to speak in foreign languages (as is what happened in The Holy Bible) with what was "invented" in the early 1900's.

To speak in "tongues" is to literally speak in foreign languages.
This is why persons from foreign nations could understand the
teachings of the Apostles on the day of Pentecost.

PS I miss all you guys a ton!

[teresahrc]

Yes, we miss you,

But don't forget about the "tongues of Angels" and don't forget about the "approved" Catholic Charismatic movement!

teresa

[Ramon]

Cepha, I can not wait to have you back! We have miss you too Cepha!

Now on the tongues issue, I follow teresahrc in that we can not forget "the tongues of Angels" as Saint Paul wrote.

There are two forms of Glossolalia:

1) Pentecost Glossolalia: When the disciples preached in people's own particular language and dialect, which they understood (cf. Acts 2).

2) Corinthian Glossolalia. This is different from above. Specifically, Corinthian Glossolalia was an activity of the Holy Spirit coming upon a person and compelling him to external expressions directed to God, but not understood by others. In Pentecost Glossolalia, while speaking in several different tongues, both the speaker and the listener understood what was uttered. The Glossolalia manifested in Corinth was the utterance of words, phrases, sentences, etc., intelligible to God but not to the person uttering them.

This is the reason why Saint Paul said that there must be a interpreter within the Church (1 Cor 14:5; 27-28). In chapter 12, Saint Paul lists nine of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit, i.e., knowledge, wisdom, spirit, faith, healing, miracles, prophecy, speaking in tongues and interpreting what another says when he speaks in tongues.

But He cautioned the Corinth Christians about abusing this gift ["tongues"].

This is where I see the problem today in Pentecostal/Charismatic (Catholic Charismatic too?) Churches. Growing up Pentecostal, I went to various Pentecostal Churches where they violate this rule of Saint Paul (even my own). Everyone will "speak in tongues", yet there will be no interpreter. Just everyone having a ball. I couldn't understand what anyone was saying. Now, I can not speak for every Pentecostal/Charismatic Churches, but the ones I have visited [which are a lot], they completely ignore what Saint Paul wrote.

That is why Saint Paul wrote 1 Cor 14. He knew what was going on in the Corinth Church. He cautioned the Corinthian Christians about excessive use of this gift; especially to the exclusion of the other more important gifts. Saint Paul did not believe this gift was a major one. Has this gift slowly got into disuse? In an Orthodox perceptive, yes (even though we regard it as a "minor [and personal] gift").

In chapter 14, he says:

"I would like for all of you to speak in strange tongues; but I would rather that you had the gift of proclaiming God's message. For the person who proclaims God's message is of greater value than the one who speaks in strange tongues-unless there is someone who can explain what he says, so the whole Church may be edified. So when I come to you, my brethren, what use will I be to you if I speak in strange tongues? Not a bit, unless I bring to you some revelation from God or some knowledge or some inspired message or some teaching." (5-6)

Blessings,
Ramon

[Cepha]

Sept 22, 2008 13:49:03 GMT -5 @teresahrc said:

Yes, we miss you,

But don't forget about the "tongues of Angels" and don't forget about the "approved" Catholic Charismatic movement!

teresa

"tongues of Angels" is literally to speak in a strong loud voice.
When Angels spoke, they spoke as thunder.
Literally thunderous voices.

As for the Charismatics, they don't do the "escarabiba oh shanna na na sokeyamaka" stuff.

;D

[Cepha]

Sept 23, 2008 1:44:25 GMT -5 Ramon said:

Cepha, I can not wait to have you back! We have miss you too Cepha!

Now on the tongues issue, I follow teresahrc in that we can not forget "the tongues of Angels" as Saint Paul wrote.

There are two forms of Glossolalia:

1) Pentecost Glossolalia: When the disciples preached in people's own particular language and dialect, which they understood (cf. Acts 2).

2) Corinthian Glossolalia. This is different from above. Specifically, Corinthian Glossolalia was an activity of the Holy Spirit coming upon a person and compelling him to external expressions directed to God, but not understood by others. In Pentecost Glossolalia, while speaking in several different tongues, both the speaker and the listener understood what was uttered. The Glossolalia manifested in Corinth was the utterance of words, phrases, sentences, etc., intelligible to God but not to the person uttering them.

This is the reason why Saint Paul said that there must be a interpreter within the Church (1 Cor 14:5; 27-28). In chapter 12, Saint Paul lists nine of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit, i.e., knowledge, wisdom, spirit, faith, healing, miracles, prophecy, speaking in tongues and interpreting what another says when he speaks in tongues.

But He cautioned the Corinth Christians about abusing this gift ["tongues"].

This is where I see the problem today in Pentecostal/Charismatic (Catholic Charismatic too?) Churches. Growing up Pentecostal, I went to various Pentecostal Churches where they violate this rule of Saint Paul (even my own). Everyone will "speak in tongues", yet there will be no interpreter. Just everyone having a ball. I couldn't understand what anyone was saying. Now, I can not speak for every Pentecostal/Charismatic Churches, but the ones I have visited [which are a lot], they completely ignore what Saint Paul wrote.

That is why Saint Paul wrote 1 Cor 14. He knew what was going on in the Corinth Church. He cautioned the Corinthian Christians about excessive use of this gift; especially to the exclusion of the other more important gifts. Saint Paul did not believe this gift was a major one. Has this gift slowly got into disuse? In an Orthodox perceptive, yes (even though we regard it as a "minor [and personal] gift").

In chapter 14, he says:

"I would like for all of you to speak in strange tongues; but I would rather that you had the gift of proclaiming God's message. For the person who proclaims God's message is of greater value than the one who speaks in strange tongues-unless there is someone who can explain what he says, so the whole Church may be edified. So when I come to you, my brethren, what use will I be to you if I speak in strange tongues? Not a bit, unless I bring to you some revelation from God or some knowledge or some inspired message or some teaching." (5-6)

Blessings,
Ramon

Thanks guys!

Now, back on to tongues...it's just speaking in a foreign language.

That's all it is. And Paul is talking to Church Leaders.

This "gift" for an evangelizer to reach his audience better was for the communication of The Gospel.

I'm working on getting back here as soon as possible...I really have this need for this forum.

[teresahrc]

What happened to Ramon? Come back!!!!