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Post by alfie on Mar 29, 2009 16:00:25 GMT -5
French Archbishop Thanks Evangelicals for Alpha Course and Charismatic Movement Excerpted from "The French Reconnection"by Agnieszka Tennant, ChristianityToday.com www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/003/20.28.html "The climate of secularization has made allies of evangelicals and gospel-focused Catholics, as well as Reformed and Lutheran Christians. They joined together in organizing well-attended Bible exhibits in 2003 as part of the Year of the Bible. The Archbishop of Paris, Jean-Marie Cardinal Lustiger, has said two good things that Catholics have received from the Protestants are the charismatic movement and the Alpha course. "In many ornate Catholic churches, including Notre Dame de Paris, big posters advertise the Alpha course, which is booming in Catholic parishes. In 1998, the number of French groups studying the principles of Christianity through this explicitly evangelistic program was 5. In 2004, it was 303. "Add to this the surprise that Jews for Jesus' Gordon experienced as he handed out his brochures: "I'm shocked by how many born-again Catholics I've run into -- probably 20 -- who say, 'I was raised Catholic but then gave my life to Jesus.' I even run into Catholics who are giving out invitations to their churches." "Many congregations are being led by lay people, chiefly women," Siemon-Netto says. "They hold worship services that are Protestant in many ways, preaching gospel-centered sermons, and distributing hosts consecrated, of course, by a priest in a neighboring community." With many priests having to look after up to 50 altars, lay people also conduct funerals, and an increasing number of Catholics support the ordination of women and the end of mandatory celibacy. "Catholics don't mind borrowing evangelical teachers, either. Some Catholic secondary schools hire evangelicals to teach religion classes . . . 'On ethical issues such as abortion and bioethics, Catholics are nearer to evangelicals than to the Reformed and Lutherans.’ " [TBC: If Catholics are truly "born again" they are commanded by Scripture to "come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing" (2 Cor 6:17). Anyone truly born of Christ is forbidden to create a hybrid ecumenical religion of idolatry, mysticism, and evangelicalism. This kind of syncretism is supported by the Alpha Course.]
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Post by Cepha on Mar 29, 2009 17:34:07 GMT -5
French Archbishop Thanks Evangelicals for Alpha Course and Charismatic Movement Excerpted from "The French Reconnection"by Agnieszka Tennant, ChristianityToday.com www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2005/003/20.28.html "The climate of secularization has made allies of evangelicals and gospel-focused Catholics, as well as Reformed and Lutheran Christians. They joined together in organizing well-attended Bible exhibits in 2003 as part of the Year of the Bible. The Archbishop of Paris, Jean-Marie Cardinal Lustiger, has said two good things that Catholics have received from the Protestants are the charismatic movement and the Alpha course. "In many ornate Catholic churches, including Notre Dame de Paris, big posters advertise the Alpha course, which is booming in Catholic parishes. In 1998, the number of French groups studying the principles of Christianity through this explicitly evangelistic program was 5. In 2004, it was 303. "Add to this the surprise that Jews for Jesus' Gordon experienced as he handed out his brochures: "I'm shocked by how many born-again Catholics I've run into -- probably 20 -- who say, 'I was raised Catholic but then gave my life to Jesus.' I even run into Catholics who are giving out invitations to their churches." "Many congregations are being led by lay people, chiefly women," Siemon-Netto says. "They hold worship services that are Protestant in many ways, preaching gospel-centered sermons, and distributing hosts consecrated, of course, by a priest in a neighboring community." With many priests having to look after up to 50 altars, lay people also conduct funerals, and an increasing number of Catholics support the ordination of women and the end of mandatory celibacy. "Catholics don't mind borrowing evangelical teachers, either. Some Catholic secondary schools hire evangelicals to teach religion classes . . . 'On ethical issues such as abortion and bioethics, Catholics are nearer to evangelicals than to the Reformed and Lutherans.’ " [TBC: If Catholics are truly "born again" they are commanded by Scripture to "come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing" (2 Cor 6:17). Anyone truly born of Christ is forbidden to create a hybrid ecumenical religion of idolatry, mysticism, and evangelicalism. This kind of syncretism is supported by the Alpha Course.] Thank God for The Magisterium! We dont' have to worry about that sort of confusion! We have The Church looking out for us.
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Mar 30, 2009 0:58:24 GMT -5
I dont agree with women becoming ordained at all. But i dont see a problem with a priest having a wife and family either.
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Post by Cepha on Mar 30, 2009 1:06:42 GMT -5
I dont agree with women becoming ordained at all. But i dont see a problem with a priest having a wife and family either. Paul agrees with you as he soundly spoke against women preaching. For example, how many female Apostles did Jesus choose? And...Priests aren't forbidden from marrying and having children. They just have to give up being Priests if they do. So, if they dont' marry and have children, it's their choice. Nobody's forcing them. Plus, I like what Paul teaches about Priestly Celibacy, that the man who is married has his mind on worldly things while the man who is totally devoted to God has his mind on the work of God and God only. Remember, The Apostles who were married left behind their wives when they went to serve Jesus and Jesus said that the man who did that would receive more treasure in heaven. And what did Jesus say about celibacy? That some were called to "not" be married for the sake of the kingdom of heaven.
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Mar 30, 2009 19:00:22 GMT -5
Dont get me wrong...i think it takes a special person to give up their whole life for Christ, i just think that if some want to marry and have kids they should still be able to do so and preach.
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Post by Cepha on Mar 30, 2009 21:00:38 GMT -5
Dont get me wrong...i think it takes a special person to give up their whole life for Christ, i just think that if some want to marry and have kids they should still be able to do so and preach. When I've spoken to Priests about this, they tell me that they gave up marrying a woman in order to marry themselves to The Bride of Christ (which is The Church) and instead of having 1 or 2 or 12 kids, they have hundreds, some thousands of kids (all those parishoners that call the "Father"). If some want to marry and have kids, then their Episopalians! LOL
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Post by alfie on Apr 8, 2009 15:00:10 GMT -5
I dont agree with women becoming ordained at all. But i dont see a problem with a priest having a wife and family either. Remember, The Apostles who were married left behind their wives when they went to serve Jesus and Jesus said that the man who did that would receive more treasure in heaven. So, why didn't Jesus choose all single men to be his apostles rather than married men?
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Post by alfie on Apr 8, 2009 15:03:16 GMT -5
I dont agree with women becoming ordained at all. But i dont see a problem with a priest having a wife and family either. The Old Testament priests were married.
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Post by Cepha on Apr 8, 2009 16:52:27 GMT -5
Remember, The Apostles who were married left behind their wives when they went to serve Jesus and Jesus said that the man who did that would receive more treasure in heaven. So, why didn't Jesus choose all single men to be his apostles rather than married men? They weren't all single. Peter for sure was married (even though he left his wife behind). And He chose single men (and made married men single) because they would represent Him. He was single. Their new bride would be His Bride, The Church. So, they would leave behind their earthly wives and be married to The Church. Instead of having 2,3,4,12 kids, they would now have literally hundreds or thousands (as the parishoners became their children spiriturally). Think about it...Jesus wasn't married. Paul preached staunchly on how better it was for the servant of God to not be married because they could focus all their problems on serving God through His Church (and not have to split their time between God and between their wives). Jesus literally said that some are born celibate (not to have sex) while others become celibate to serve God. A man who serves God through The Church (by The Law) cannot have a wife and be celibate at the same time.
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Post by Cepha on Apr 8, 2009 17:02:25 GMT -5
I dont agree with women becoming ordained at all. But i dont see a problem with a priest having a wife and family either. The Old Testament priests were married. Jesus wasn't married and the OT Priests rejected Jesus Christ so why would any "man of God" want to emulate those who rejected Jesus Christ (The Pharisees who were the Remnants of the OT Priests)? Why wouldn't they (like Catholic Priests do) emulate Jesus Christ Himself and save themselves to serve God 100% of the time and not split themselves up between their wives and kids and The Church? Remember, a man cannot serve himself and God at the same time. He has to choose one. That's what Jesus said.
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Post by teresahrc on Apr 9, 2009 20:05:57 GMT -5
Um...priests can be married.
There are actually many priest (former anglicans) that have been given a "dispensation" to be ordained.
Also, in Eastern Catholic Churches (Byzantine, Maronite etc) MOST priest are married. They are just as Catholic as Latin Catholics. However, they cannot remarry if their spouse dies. Also, NO bishops can be married, whether Eastern/latin Catholic or Orthodox.
I definitely think that St. Paul promoted celibacy for the clergy, but it was never a strict command. Therefore, both views can be correct.
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Post by Cepha on Apr 9, 2009 21:19:50 GMT -5
Um...priests can be married. There are actually many priest (former anglicans) that have been given a "dispensation" to be ordained. Also, in Eastern Catholic Churches (Byzantine, Maronite etc) MOST priest are married. They are just as Catholic as Latin Catholics. However, they cannot remarry if their spouse dies. Also, NO bishops can be married, whether Eastern/latin Catholic or Orthodox. I definitely think that St. Paul promoted celibacy for the clergy, but it was never a strict command. Therefore, both views can be correct. That's the beautiful thing about Priests today...the overwhelming majority "choose" to be celibate in order to serve God totally. Every married Priest will readily admit that they cannot serve God as much as a Priest who's wife is Bride of Christ (The Church). But Jesus put it best: Matthew 1910. His disciples said to him, "If there is such commitment between husband and wife, we should not get married."
11. He told them, however, "This manifestation does not go down well for everyone, except for the ones that it applies.
12. "For there are celibates that were born from their mother's womb like this, and there are celibates who became celibate from humanity, and there are celibates who became celibate of their own free will, for the sake of the Kingdom of heaven.
Whoever can do without it, let them be without it."Amen Jesus. Here, Jesus states that only those who are celibate understand why they are. It applies to "them". Those born celibate? Persons' with physical deformaties unable to have sex or homosexuals (who because of their nature for same sex attraction, are called to remain celibate). Those who became celibate from humanity? Persons who "chose" to not have sex of their own accord. And those who became celibate for the sake of the kingdom of heaven of their own free will? Priests...and let us not forget that Priests are not the only ones who are celibate, but there are also the other Religious Vocations (Monks/Friars, Nuns, etc...).
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Post by teresahrc on Apr 10, 2009 7:54:58 GMT -5
I agree.
The Catholic Church doesn't just read the teachings about celibacy and say "oh, that's nice, that's a great ideal" but we have many, many people who live it. Not only do they live it, but they are honored and respected for doing so.
teresa
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