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Post by Cepha on May 4, 2009 10:26:18 GMT -5
Using only historical references
(not biased religious sources),
prove that Catholicism is wrong.
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Post by emily445455 on May 4, 2009 10:42:28 GMT -5
Would the Bible be considered a bias religious source? I'm not about to touch this one, just curious.
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Post by Ramon on May 4, 2009 10:49:26 GMT -5
Would the Bible be considered a bias religious source? I'm not about to touch this one, just curious. The problem is not the Bible, the problem is one's interpretation of it. I will rather follow how the Church since the 1st Century interpret certain passages than what some Protestant preacher 200-300 years ago interpret a passage outside the Living Tradition of the Church. I look towards the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church that Christ started and was preserved by the Holy Apostles, there Holy Successors, the God-Bearing Fathers/Mothers, and the Seven Holy Ecumenical Councils for my illumination..... In IC.XC, Ramon |
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Post by Cepha on May 4, 2009 10:53:37 GMT -5
Would the Bible be considered a bias religious source? I'm not about to touch this one, just curious. Absolutely. A person would have to use historical secular evidence. Like academic sources.  |
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Post by Cepha on May 4, 2009 10:55:36 GMT -5
Would the Bible be considered a bias religious source? I'm not about to touch this one, just curious. The problem is not the Bible, the problem is one's interpretation of it. I will rather follow how the Church since the 1st Century interpret certain passages than what some Protestant preacher 200-300 years ago interpret a passage outside the Living Tradition of the Church. I look towards the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church that Christ started and was preserved by the Holy Apostles, there Holy Successors, the God-Bearing Fathers/Mothers, and the Seven Holy Ecumenical Councils for my illumination..... In IC.XC, Ramon Church Fathers are definitely great sources! Since Anti-Catholics don't believe that they were Catholic, they are a great example to use (pre-4th Century since Anti-Catholics don't believe that the Catholic Church existed before then). And, they are historical figures. |
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Post by watchman on May 4, 2009 11:59:44 GMT -5
Would the Bible be considered a bias religious source? I'm not about to touch this one, just curious. The problem is not the Bible, the problem is one's interpretation of it. I will rather follow how the Church since the 1st Century interpret certain passages than what some Protestant preacher 200-300 years ago interpret a passage How about just accepting it as it is written, and believing what it says? |
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Post by Ramon on May 4, 2009 12:02:20 GMT -5
The problem is not the Bible, the problem is one's interpretation of it. I will rather follow how the Church since the 1st Century interpret certain passages than what some Protestant preacher 200-300 years ago interpret a passage How about just accepting it as it is written, and believing what it says? Scripture doesn't interpret itself. We dealt with that before. In IC.XC, Ramon |
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Post by emily445455 on May 4, 2009 12:05:08 GMT -5
My pastor said something really powerful the other day about interpreting scriptures. I'll try to look it up
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Post by watchman on May 4, 2009 12:06:39 GMT -5
How about just accepting it as it is written, and believing what it says? Scripture doesn't interpret itself. We dealt with that before. In IC.XC, Ramon All you have to do is believe it you do not need to interpret it. private interpretation is where we get in trouble. |
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Post by emily445455 on May 4, 2009 12:23:31 GMT -5
Man I searched for this forever it felt like...then hubby finds it in a few seconds...grrr, lol. Anyways...
“We’re so full of ourselves and our intellect. How dare we, how dare we define the Words of God with our own concepts and our own ideals. We define God’s Words like in Romans chapter 9 in verse 13, we define the words “love” and we define the word “hate” the way we interpret them. How dare we do that; we should be ashamed of ourselves to apply human reasoning to the ways and works of Almighty God. You see our love isn’t the same as God’s love, and our hate it isn’t the same as God’s hate. Because you see God is absolutely perfect, and we are not.” - Pastor Tom ____ April 26, 2009
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Post by Ramon on May 4, 2009 12:28:36 GMT -5
Scripture doesn't interpret itself. We dealt with that before. In IC.XC, Ramon All you have to do is believe it you do not need to interpret it. Yes you do. Scriptures doesn't interpret itself. Every Scriptures needs interpretation (how else you can know if a Scripture is figuratively or literally? etc). Please read my response to this on page 3 of "Proof that all interpretation is "personal"..." in the Salvation forum. I think we got way off-topic..... ;D In IC.XC, Ramon |
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Post by watchman on May 4, 2009 12:36:48 GMT -5
All you have to do is believe it you do not need to interpret it. Yes you do. Scriptures doesn't interpret itself. Every Scriptures needs interpretation (how else you can know if a Scripture is figuratively or literally? etc). Please read my response to this on page 3 of "Proof that all interpretation is "personal"..." in the Salvation forum. I think we got way off-topic..... ;D In IC.XC, Ramon All scripture is literal unless the text itself tell you it is figurative. |
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Post by Ramon on May 4, 2009 12:53:35 GMT -5
Yes you do. Scriptures doesn't interpret itself. Every Scriptures needs interpretation (how else you can know if a Scripture is figuratively or literally? etc). Please read my response to this on page 3 of "Proof that all interpretation is "personal"..." in the Salvation forum. I think we got way off-topic..... ;D In IC.XC, Ramon All scripture is literal unless the text itself tell you it is figurative. Not always. Take the concept of hell. YOU have to decide if the given passages that talk about hell are figuratively or literally, but Scriptures doesn't tell you which way to go. In IC.XC, Ramon |
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Post by watchman on May 4, 2009 13:06:21 GMT -5
All scripture is literal unless the text itself tell you it is figurative. Not always. Take the concept of hell. YOU have to decide if the given passages that talk about hell are figuratively or literally, but Scriptures doesn't tell you which way to go. In IC.XC, Ramon Of course it does. Hell is real and if you do not believe it is real then you simply do not believe the Bible and for some reason must think Jesus is a liar. Jesus tells us the goats will burn with the demons. There is no reason to doubt that He meant exactly what He said. Matthew 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:This is obviously referring to the lake of fire but I assume this is what you meant by Hell. |
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Post by teresahrc on May 4, 2009 16:34:42 GMT -5
We do.
18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
(Matthew 16)
13For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.
14These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly:
15But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
(1 Tim. 3)
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Post by alfie on May 4, 2009 17:15:20 GMT -5
The problem is not the Bible, the problem is one's interpretation of it. I will rather follow how the Church since the 1st Century interpret certain passages than what some Protestant preacher 200-300 years ago interpret a passage outside the Living Tradition of the Church. I look towards the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church that Christ started and was preserved by the Holy Apostles, there Holy Successors, the God-Bearing Fathers/Mothers, and the Seven Holy Ecumenical Councils for my illumination..... In IC.XC, Ramon Church Fathers are definitely great sources! Since Anti-Catholics don't believe that they were Catholic, they are a great example to use (pre-4th Century since Anti-Catholics don't believe that the Catholic Church existed before then). And, they are historical figures. There are 1500 church fathers and they don't agree on everthing so how do you decide which of their doctrines you should follow? Then there is the Catholic Catechism. It also needs to be interpreted. When you read some of the Catholic apologists they don't all agree with each other on what the catechism teaches. So just stick with the Bible. |
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Post by watchman on May 4, 2009 18:10:14 GMT -5
We do. 18And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. (Matthew 16) 13For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus. 14These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly: 15But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. (1 Tim. 3) I do not disagree with these verses. However I do not think that church is the RCC. |
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Post by emily445455 on May 4, 2009 18:34:57 GMT -5
Neither do I, watchman. Watchman, who do you think that "rock" is?
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Post by watchman on May 4, 2009 18:39:10 GMT -5
Neither do I, watchman. Watchman, who do you think that "rock" is? I believe the rock is the confession Peter made that Jesus is the Son of God, and even if Peter is the rock, that does not make Him the first pope or the RCC the true Church. |
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Post by emily445455 on May 4, 2009 20:10:25 GMT -5
Interesting. I had an idea in church awhile back, that the "rock" is Jesus Christ....since all through Scriptures He is refered to as the rock. But I would have to study that.
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