Call no man "Father"? Matthew 23:8-10 Investigated

[Ramon]

Hello,

After a recent debate with a Protestant about Matthew 23:8-10, I believe it will be good to use Matthew 23:8-10 in it's proper context.

"But be not ye called Rabbi: for one is your Master, even Christ; and all ye are brethren. And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven. Neither be ye called masters: for one is your Master, even Christ." (Matthew 23:8-10).

What did Christ' mean? Are we suppose to take Christ' words literally? Let see how the Holy Apostles understood Christ' declaration.

Saint Paul told the Early Christians that he was there Father. Was Saint Paul wrong?

The word "Father" and "Child" was used by the Holy Apostles, not always denoting a blood relation (i.e., Acts 7:2; 22:1; 14, 1 John 2:13, 1 Cor. 4:15, 1 Cor. 4:17, Phil. 2:22, Philemon 10, 1 Tim. 1:2,18). Saint Paul was the Early Christians Spiritual Father in the faith, as he told them (1 Cor 4:15).

Saint Peter (and Saint John) called David "Father" and called the OT Patriarchs "Fathers" (Acts 3:13,25; 5:30, Acts 4:25).

Read Acts 7:11-12, 15,19,38,44-45,51-52 (Stephen refers to our "fathers" in the faith), Acts 7:32 (Stephen calls God the God of our "fathers.") and Acts 13:17,32,36; 24:14; 26:6; 28:17,25 (Saint Paul also refers to the God of our "fathers" in the faith). Read Rom. 4:1 (Saint Paul calls Abraham our "forefather.), Rom. 4:16-17 (Saint Paul says that Abraham is the "father" of us all and the "father" of many nations), and Rom. 9:10 (Saint Paul calls Isaac, a spiritual leader, our "forefather"). Saint James called Abraham "our Father" (James 2:21). Read Acts 22:3 (Saint Paul says he was educated according to the strict law of our "fathers"). Read 1 Peter 1:18, 2 Peter 3:4 (Saint Peter talked about our "Fathers"). Apparently, Christ' disciples err right?

The Holy Apostles did not took Christ' words literally.

How about "teachers"? In the church at Antioch certain men were called "prophets and teachers" (Acts 13:1). Saint Paul not only recognized teachers as gifts of God to the Church (1 Cor 12:28; Eph 4:11), but he also did not hesitate to call himself "a teacher of the Gentiles." (2 Tim 1:11). Another reason why not to take Christ' words literally! Saint Paul didn't!

If we take the verses at face value, then we can't called our biological dad "Father". But did not Christ told us to "honor our Father and Mother"? Christ used the word "Father" to refer to spiritual leaders (Matt. 3:9; Luke 3:8, Luke 16:24,30).

If we read Scriptures as whole, then we got to conclude the following:

A) Christ contradicted himself.
B) The Holy Apostles strayed away from Christ' teaching.
C) The Holy Bible can err.

However, if we read Christ' words within context, while reading Scriptures as a whole and within the Living Tradition of the Church, then Christ was not talking literally. He was using hyperbole. Jesus was discouraging His followers from elevating the scribes and Pharisees to the titles of “fathers” and “rabbis” because they were hypocrites. Christ was against the Jewish leaders because they did not practice what they preach, but they demand there fellow man to lavish them with special titles. Christ was not against the titles per se.

What about the Holy Fathers of the Church? The Constant Tradition of the Church for the past 2,000 years has understood Christ' words the same way as the Holy Apostles. For the past 2,000 years, we have called our spiritual leaders "Fathers". Some women has be called "Mothers" for there purity in the Faith.

Non-Catholic/Orthodox tend to interpret Scriptures while ignoring or reject other Scriptures entirely.

For further reading, please read www.synaxis.org/callnoman.htm (Why Orthodox Call their Pastor "Father")

I find it amusing how non-Orthodox interpret Scriptures. After coming to Orthodoxy, I consider myself stupid in my Protestant years. I can't believe what I believed and how I interpreted Scriptures. I was living in a delusion!

Scriptures needs to interpret within the Church and by the Church.

In IC.XC,
Ramon

[teresahrc]

Yeah, didn't St. Paul say he was a "Father" do Timothy?

And what should I call my dad? Michael? Yikes

[Cepha]

May 14, 2009 13:06:53 GMT -5 @teresahrc said:

Yeah, didn't St. Paul say he was a "Father" do Timothy?

And what should I call my dad? Michael? Yikes

Hmmm...didn't Jesus call us his "children"?

And, what about Peter calling disciples his children?

Or Jesus calling the OT fathers "fathers"?

Gasp!

LOL!

[mrstain]

May 14, 2009 13:52:51 GMT -5 Cepha said:

May 14, 2009 13:06:53 GMT -5 @teresahrc said:

Yeah, didn't St. Paul say he was a "Father" do Timothy?

And what should I call my dad? Michael? Yikes

Hmmm...didn't Jesus call us his "children"?

And, what about Peter calling disciples his children?

Or Jesus calling the OT fathers "fathers"?

Gasp!

LOL!

You are right of course.

Lk 16:24-31: - Jesus himself using the term "father" when referring to Abraham -- a man.
“Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’ But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented. And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’ “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house, for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’ Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’ And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’

Yeah. I love it when this one comes up in coversation. These are the verses I usually dig up on this topic:

1 Jn 2:13-14: - St. John writing to "fathers" of the Church.
I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father. I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him that is from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.

Acts 7:2: - St. Stephen calling Jewish leaders, "fathers"
And he said, Men, brethren, and fathers, hearken; The God of glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Charran

Acts 22:1: - St. Paul calling Jews, "fathers"
Men, brethren, and fathers, hear ye my defence which I make now unto you.

Rom 4:16-17: - Here Abraham is called "father" just like Jesus did.
Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all, (As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

1 Tim 1:2: - St. Paul referring to himself as a spiritual father by calling Timothy his son.
To Timothy, a true son in the faith: Grace, mercy, and peace from God our Father and Jesus Christ our Lord.

Heb 12:7-9: - Some more of that "father" stuff.
If you endure chastening, God deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom a father does not chasten? But if you are without chastening, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate and not sons. Furthermore, we have had human fathers who corrected us, and we paid them respect. Shall we not much more readily be in subjection to the Father of spirits and live?

1 Thess 2:11: - St. Paul again speaks of a "father"
as you know how we exhorted, and comforted, and charged every one of you, as a father does his own children,

It's all about the proper context!