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Post by alfie on May 20, 2009 21:56:10 GMT -5
Matthew 10:35-36 says I have come to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother and a daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foe will be those in his own household.
These verses don't say husband against his wife or a wife against her husband.
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Post by teresahrc on May 20, 2009 22:41:08 GMT -5
Yeah, probably because Christians aren't supposed to marry non-Christians, so hopefully it should be a rare thing that the wife and husband are divided. But it does happen sometimes.
It also doesn't say "a Grandmother against her granddaughter, a cousin against cousin", etc. but I think the point is still the same.
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Post by Cepha on May 21, 2009 11:12:16 GMT -5
I asked this in the other thread and I will ask it here, and then I will probably leave this thread alone seeing as it has been discussed in the other thread to death. Is there one single person outside of cepha in this forum that thinks a person can get to heaven for the sole reason that their spouse got saved? cepha have you ever heard of anyone outside of yourself that would agree to this strange belief? I don't ever remember cepha saying that. Where is that? Not only do I say it, The Holy Bible just said it. That's why I posted the scripture, so that there'd be no confusion. And...I also posted The Catechism of The Catholic Church's Official Teaching on it, so Teresa, you HAVE TO accept it as a Catholic (that non-Believers in Christ can be saved). What's the big fuss? Either you bow down to the authority of The Holy Roman Catholic Church when it agrees with The Scripture, or you don't. I for one do! ;D |
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Post by Cepha on May 21, 2009 11:13:01 GMT -5
Wes thinks it means that since the husband is a Christian, he would lead his wife to God too, making the family holy. And he's right...the Bible literally states that and uses the word "holy". ;D |
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Post by Cepha on May 21, 2009 11:15:15 GMT -5
True emily.....but the believing spouse should continued pray, fast, and let his or her faith and works shine upon his or her family. It doesn't always happened and some take a long time to happened. I know this women who spent 18 years praying and fasting before her husband got converted to Christ...... Well Ramon, for Roman Catholics, we believe that unbelievers can be saved (even without being married to a Christian) and no where in The Bible does it state that those married to a Christian would have any less of the same treatment. For us, non-believers (whether married or not to a Christian) can be saved period. Whoever can't accept this, isn't a Roman Catholic Christian or they are in complete defiance of The Church's Teachings and need to bow down to the scripture posted above. ;D |
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Post by Cepha on May 21, 2009 11:16:29 GMT -5
I don't ever remember cepha saying that. Where is that? Page 13 of the ''how many times have you been baptized'' thread. By the way, unbelieving spouses are saved by their believing spouse. So, since The Bible states two things, neither is absolute. 1 Cor 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.That means, that they are saved for God would not deny any holy person (including unbelieving children) heaven. And you should read through that thread and see the fuss he makes because myself, emily, and CC refuse to agree. I notice you also refuse to define what you think "sanctified" means when used by Paul in this verse too? Why? Why do you refuse to answer that question? Hmmm...  |
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Post by Cepha on May 21, 2009 11:16:56 GMT -5
Oh wow, cradle. I couldn't marry a Catholic, lol. That's ok! You could still be saved! lol! |
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Post by Cepha on May 21, 2009 11:20:03 GMT -5
Wes is my husband...he is southern baptist, but attends my Catholic Church. He still holds strong to his Baptists beliefs. Wow. So does he understand everything Catholicism teaches (not misrepresenting it as Anti-Catholics do), but simply disagree on some core teachings? I could never marry a non-Orthodox Christian. I see too many conflicts that will arise. I will rather marry one that is Orthodox and thus avoid religious conflicts....... In IC.XC, Ramon Me? I'd marry a devout Muslim woman before I marry a Protestant. At least (according to The Catholic Church's CCC), their' not heretics. Muslims are far more conservative than Protestants (they don't believe in abortion or gay marriage as some major Protestants do). Plus, they love and venerate The Blessed Mother. And...their women know how to dress (conservatively, not exposing their bodies, etc...). I love the old Pentecostals for that (they too were like Muslim women when it came to dress codes). |
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Post by Cepha on May 21, 2009 11:22:00 GMT -5
On this debate on 1 Cor 7:14, I have to agree with Teresahrc, Watchman, and others. Even the Great Saint John Chrysostom doesn't interpret the above verse to mean that the unbelieving spouse is save through his or her believing spouse. In IC.XC, Ramon But! Was it made a doctrinal belief? Or his own "personal" belief? See, what I posted is a Roman Catholic Doctrinal belief. Big difference and even you have to agree that even for Roman Catholics, where a Church Father's personal position disagrees with The Doctrine of The Faith, we have to put his personal belief and choose the teaching of The Church. I would imagine it's the same with the E.O. Church, right? |
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Post by Cepha on May 21, 2009 11:24:34 GMT -5
I don't feel like reading it, but I also disagree with Cepha. Cepha, do you really believe that(that the unbelieving spouse is automatically saved) , or did you just feel like arguing your point? You also disagree with The Scripture and The CCC. By the way, I never said "automatically saved". I wrote that a person that has accepted Jesus Christ then rejected Him loses that salvation (even if married to a Christian). Where'd you get that from? The Catholic Church teaches that before a person can be reject Christ, they have to accept Him first. I already said this...where'd you get that I said "automatically saved" from? |
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Post by teresahrc on May 21, 2009 11:28:17 GMT -5
You are confused.
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Post by Cepha on May 21, 2009 11:29:10 GMT -5
I asked this in the other thread and I will ask it here, and then I will probably leave this thread alone seeing as it has been discussed in the other thread to death. Is there one single person outside of cepha in this forum that thinks a person can get to heaven for the sole reason that their spouse got saved? cepha have you ever heard of anyone outside of yourself that would agree to this strange belief? Funny how you like to ask questions, yet don't actually answer questions posted to you. Whenever you're done Googling and hitting the Anti-Catholic sites and trying to get an answer that doesn't mean "made holy", let me know. Then, give us your own definition of "sanctified" as used by Saint Paul in 1 Corinthians 7:14. Matter of fact, that question is now open to all those who don't believe that "sanctified" means "made holy" in 1 Corinthians 7:14 (even though Saint Paul literally compared the non-believing spouse's sanctification to the children also being made holy). Oh, and by the way, for all you Catholics who disagree with me, line up with the Anti-Catholics who believe that babies who die go to hell because they too are unbelievers for not having accepted Jesus Christ. But hey, do you! I'll roll with The Catholic Church and with The Bible on this one (no translation needed...just accept the scripture as written). Question: How come no one has actually addressed the scripture I posted which is the topic here?  |
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Post by Cepha on May 21, 2009 11:30:29 GMT -5
Do you know what a heretic is? Someone who is a Christian but who denies The Catholic Church's position. Muslims are not Christians, therefore cannot be heretics. How am I confused? And, how do you feel about the CCC's teachings on non-believers being saved? Do you accept it or reject it? (Besides, Muslims have far more successful marriages than do Christians. Their divorce rate is only in the 30's while Christians are like 50%. Better chance of success with a devout Muslim woman). |
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Post by teresahrc on May 21, 2009 11:31:41 GMT -5
No it doesn't.
It does teach that it may be possible for someone who has never heard the gospel to be saved.
Do you really think that someone married to a believer would have never heard the gospel?
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Post by Cepha on May 21, 2009 11:44:06 GMT -5
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Post by Cepha on May 21, 2009 11:44:24 GMT -5
Hey, CC, did you ever get emailed back from your priest regarding non-believers being able to be saved?
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Post by teresahrc on May 21, 2009 12:00:49 GMT -5
17Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ (Romans 10)
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Post by emily445455 on May 21, 2009 12:10:51 GMT -5
That's ok! You could still be saved! lol! I am. |
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Post by Cepha on May 21, 2009 12:11:53 GMT -5
17Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ (Romans 10) Well, I guess you just condemned The Jews with that statement, huh? Romans 10 16 But they did not all hearken to the glad tidings. For Isaiah saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
17 So belief cometh of hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
18 But I say, Did they not hear? Yea, verily, Their sound went out into all the earth, And their words unto the ends of the world.
19 But I say, Did Israel not know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy with that which is no nation, With a nation void of understanding will I anger you.
20 And Isaiah is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I became manifest unto them that asked not of me.
21 But as to Israel he saith, All the day long did I spread out my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people. If God has not chosen you, then you can hear The Gospel a hundred times and still not be saved. You won't believe it. It is God Who reveals His words. This in no way does away with verse 17. The next verse (the one you left out) proves this: But I say, Did they not hear? Yea, verily, Their sound went out into all the earth, And their words unto the ends of the world. Jews "heard" the word, but did not receive it. Aren't you one of those who believes that they're still saved? Even if they (as is seen here) rejected Christ? [ By the way, stay away from The NIV bible...it is published by the same company that publishes The Satanic Bible T] |
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Post by Cepha on May 21, 2009 12:13:23 GMT -5
Now, does anybody want to define how Paul used the word "sanctified" in 1 Cor 7:14?
Don't tell me now that everybody is going to avoid that question.
Teresa said "it could mean", I believe, but is that what you believe it meant in here (set apart) when Paul literally compares it to being made "holy" (which is also a definition for it)?
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