Alex Jones...Pentecostal;

[knuckle]

Hi Jacee------------

Sis,have you studied baptism through the OT?Start with Noah and look for every time a body of water is crossed there is some amazing spiritual revelation in it.

much love----------------knuckle

[Cepha]

Apr 23, 2008 12:38:53 GMT -5 redsoxfan said:

Cepha are charismatic Catholics doing anything wrong then when they are baptised into the Holy Spirit then?

I don't know enough about them to comment.

Does The Church call it that? "baptized into the Holy Spirit?"

[Cepha]

jacee
The heirarchy of the church? What is that?

hi·er·ar·chy
–noun
1. any system of persons or things ranked one above another.
2. government by ecclesiastical rulers.
3. the power or dominion of a hierarch.
4. an organized body of ecclesiastical officials in successive ranks or orders: the Roman Catholic hierarchy.
5. one of the three divisions of the angels, each made up of three orders, conceived as constituting a graded body.
6. Also called celestial hierarchy. the collective body of angels.
7. government by an elite group.
8. Linguistics. the system of levels according to which a language is organized, as phonemic, morphemic, syntactic, or semantic.

Matthew 28
19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Jesus didn't commission His Apostles (those He gave authority of disciples) to baptize "in" The Holy Spirit, but "in the name" of The Holy Spirit.

Holy spirit came upon all the 120 in the room, and then upon all that the apostles laid hands on. Are you saying it isn't for today?

Happens every Easter.

Cepha you have to prove it is only for the *heirarchy* and I don't believe you can do that.

Show me any non-Apostles who were given these authorities:

Ordained Leaders Share in Jesus' Ministry and Authority
Matt. 10:1,40 - Jesus declares to His apostles, "he who receives you, receives Me, and he who rejects you, rejects Me and the One who sent Me." Jesus freely gives His authority to the apostles in order for them to effectively convert the world.

Matt. 16:19; 18:18 - the apostles are given Christ's authority to make visible decisions on earth that will be ratified in heaven. God raises up humanity in Christ by exalting his chosen leaders and endowing them with the authority and grace they need to bring about the conversion of all. Without a central authority in the Church, there would be chaos (as there is in Protestantism).

Luke 9:1; 10:19 - Jesus gives the apostles authority over the natural and the supernatural (diseases, demons, serpents, and scorpions).

Luke 10:16 - Jesus tells His apostles, "he who hears you, hears Me." When we hear the bishops' teaching on the faith, we hear Christ Himself.

Luke 22:29 - the Father gives the kingdom to the Son, and the Son gives the kingdom to the apostles. The gift is transferred from the Father to the Son to the apostles.

Num 16:28 - the Father's authority is transferred to Moses. Moses does not speak on his own. This is a real transfer of authority.

John 5:30 - similarly, Jesus as man does nothing of His own authority, but He acts under the authority of the Father.

John 7:16-17 - Jesus as man states that His authority is not His own, but from God. He will transfer this authority to other men.

John 8:28 - Jesus says He does nothing on His own authority. Similarly, the apostles will do nothing on their own authority. Their authority comes from God.

John 12:49 - The father's authority is transferred to the Son. The Son does not speak on his own. This is a transfer of divine authority.

John 13:20 - Jesus says, "he who receives anyone who I send, receives Me." He who receives the apostles, receives Christ Himself. He who rejects the apostles and their successors, rejects Christ.

John 14:10 - Jesus says the Word He speaks is not His own authority, but from the Father. The gift is from the Father to Jesus to the apostles.

John 16:14-15 - what the Father has, the Son has, and the Son gives it to the apostles. The authority is not lessened or mitigated.

John 17:18; 20:21 - as the Father sends the Son, the Son sends the apostles. The apostles have divinely appointed authority.

Acts 20:28 - the apostles are shepherds and guardians appointed by the Holy Spirit / 1 Peter 2:25 - Jesus is the Shepherd and Guardian. The apostles, by the power of the Spirit, share Christ's ministry and authority.

Jer. 23:1-8; Ezek. 34:1-10 - the shepherds must shepherd the sheep, or they will be held accountable by God.

Eph. 2:20 - the Christian faith is built upon the foundation of the apostles. The word "foundation" proves that it does not die with apostles, but carries on through succession.

Eph. 2:20; Rev. 21:9,14 - the words "household," "Bride of the Lamb," the "new Jerusalem" are all metaphors for the Church whose foundation is the apostles.

The creed is wrong Redsox. I do believe in the Apostles creed and said it every sunday in the Reformed Church that I attended after my new birth.

The Nicene "is" The Apostles' Creed.

The only thing that Redsox is wrong about is being a Redsox fan.

Smiling here...loving all you guys too.

[reinabella]

Apr 23, 2008 20:19:33 GMT -5 Cepha said:

Apr 23, 2008 12:38:53 GMT -5 redsoxfan said:

Cepha are charismatic Catholics doing anything wrong then when they are baptised into the Holy Spirit then?

I don't know enough about them to comment.

Does The Church call it that? "baptized into the Holy Spirit?"

speaking from my experiences only, no it's not baptized "into" the holy spirit. Baptized "in" the holy spirit was a phrased we used when someone felt the holy spirit in their bodies which may cause them to jump or "dance" in a way that indicated joy and unity with the spirit.

I personally think it's more emotional then scriptual and doens't save nor condemn. But I do think it's an emotional reaction more then anything.. That's just imo after having been in a charismatic church..

[jacee]

Hi knuckle

I can't say I studied it knuckle but I see a picture of baptism with the parting of the Red Sea, and the flood. Is there more to it?

[jacee]

Hi Rein

Were you baptized yourself? It is possible for overzealous christians to do things out of emotions.

I've always wondered why people jerk like having seizures periodically when they "fall out" under the power of God. Now I know. My husband and I were prayed for Monday night and electricity hit me, and the guy who was behind me. I laid and jerked for several minutes. Could be embarassing but I wanted what we were asking for more than temporary discomfort.

And it was great!

[jacee]

Cepha

Before the cross the disciples were not "of spirit" yet. Jesus did transfer His authority in His name to them for what He told them to do.

They didn't even know what His true mission for coming was until after the Resurrection. And they were "born from above" when He breathed on them and said receive ye my spirit. Again that is the Spirit of Christ.

After Pentecost, Holy Spirit is given to all believers. Not just the apostles and it becomes about His body on earth with He as Head of it.

Big differences between the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God. One is understanding....the other is authority.

Why not read your bibles and study for yourselves? No church will be present at our individual standing before God. Either at the judgment seat of Christ which is for the believer and the Great White Throne judgment.

And we will all answer individually what we did with The man called Jesus, Gods son.

[cradlecathlic27]

no offense Jacee, but i just dont believe in that stuff. I guess it would have to happen to me in order for me to believe it. Im hard headed i know.

[reinabella]

Apr 23, 2008 22:37:29 GMT -5 jacee said:

Hi Rein

Were you baptized yourself? It is possible for overzealous christians to do things out of emotions.

I've always wondered why people jerk like having seizures periodically when they "fall out" under the power of God. Now I know. My husband and I were prayed for Monday night and electricity hit me, and the guy who was behind me. I laid and jerked for several minutes. Could be embarassing but I wanted what we were asking for more than temporary discomfort.

And it was great!

Yes I was baptized a long time ago. I totally believe that alot of that stuff I went through was "emotional". It wasn't that I didn't feel anything, in fact ,I felt alot, and i channeled those emotions in the way I learned to, which was to do that stuff.. I wouldn't call it overzealousness though. It's what you know. It's just the "norm". SO it may seem overzealous to people who aren't in the usual environment but to us, it was typical. Like I said before, i don't think it's like harmful, or beneficial either way. It's just an expression of emotion. Some people get scared and weirdly laugh when they're scared. That's how I view it NOW. However, you're asking someone who believes differently now so I can almost assure you that someone who lives it now, will not say what i just did.

I'll tell you this much, I was a youth camp once and I felt a surge of life during a prayer meeting and just jumped, and danced, and cried, and felt God all over. Was it emotionally driven?? Most likely. But it was the best emotional reaction ever! LOL

[Cepha]

Apr 23, 2008 22:20:59 GMT -5 reinabella said:

Apr 23, 2008 20:19:33 GMT -5 Cepha said:

I don't know enough about them to comment.

Does The Church call it that? "baptized into the Holy Spirit?"

speaking from my experiences only, no it's not baptized "into" the holy spirit. Baptized "in" the holy spirit was a phrased we used when someone felt the holy spirit in their bodies which may cause them to jump or "dance" in a way that indicated joy and unity with the spirit.

I personally think it's more emotional then scriptual and doens't save nor condemn. But I do think it's an emotional reaction more then anything.. That's just imo after having been in a charismatic church..

You mean like this?

youtube.com/watch?v=07cmMhQxjfg

[Cepha]

Apr 23, 2008 22:47:31 GMT -5 cradlecathlic27 said:

no offense Jacee, but i just dont believe in that stuff. I guess it would have to happen to me in order for me to believe it. Im hard headed i know.

There's a reason Cath are Caths and Prot are Prots and non-Denomn are non-Denoms...their attracted to that particular manner of worship and feel comfortable there.

When Catholics get "The Spirit", it's a reverent manner. It's gentle like a dove. It's quiet, reassuring, peaceful.

I can't speak for anybody else because I'm not in their bodies when they experience what they experience. Only God truly knows.

[Cepha]

jacee
Before the cross the disciples were not "of spirit" yet. Jesus did transfer His authority in His name to them for what He told them to do.

So basically, you infer that Jesus commissioned The Apostles to do something to others (baptize them in the name of The Holy Spirit) that they themselves weren't "of" (being "of" The Spirit)?

And they were "born from above" when He breathed on them and said receive ye my spirit. Again that is the Spirit of Christ.

Is that "in" The Holy Bible? I've never heard of a "Spirit of Christ". I've only heard of The Holy Trinity, but not that Jesus gave out His own spirit.

After Pentecost, Holy Spirit is given to all believers. Not just the apostles and it becomes about His body on earth with He as Head of it.

When? How? Where?

I never heard that...I've only know of The Spirit comind down upon those baptized per Jesus' instructions by ordained Priests (The Apostles and whomever they chose to succeed them).

So...Satan got the spirit? Demons got it? They believe in Jesus.

Big differences between the kingdom of heaven and the kingdom of God. One is understanding....the other is authority.

Really? Can you go further into that? I've never heard that God's Kingdom was separate from Heavenly Kingdom.

Why not read your bibles and study for yourselves? No church will be present at our individual standing before God. Either at the judgment seat of Christ which is for the believer and the Great White Throne judgment.

Wow...why don't "you" read your bible for yourself:

Identifying the Church in Revelation

The events of the last three and one-half years of the age regarding the calling and destiny of the Church are revealed for our understanding.

However, many teach that the Church is not in view in Revelation Chapters 5 through 19 because the word church is nowhere to be found.

Conclusions are drawn that the Church must have been raptured before the events described in these chapters take place. But is that what the Bible really teaches?

www.restoringthevision.com/Ch4RtheV.htm

And we will all answer individually what we did with The man called Jesus, Gods son.

There are a couple of chapters in the bible that talk about Jesus judging The Churches themelves (Rev 3&4) collectively.

[jacee]

youtube.com/watch?v=mPrcNxYqlgA

[jacee]

youtube.com/watch?v=UGcxcXHeMiE

[jacee]

jacee
Before the cross the disciples were not "of spirit" yet. Jesus did transfer His authority in His name to them for what He told them to do.



So basically, you infer that Jesus commissioned The Apostles to do something to others (baptize them in the name of The Holy Spirit) that they themselves weren't "of" (being "of" The Spirit)?


He didn't tell them this until after pentecost. He preached the kingdom of Christ to the disciples before the cross, and after resurrection....the kingdom of God.

Big difference here

[jacee]

After Pentecost, Holy Spirit is given to all believers. Not just the apostles and it becomes about His body on earth with He as Head of it.



When? How? Where?

I never heard that...I've only know of The Spirit comind down upon those baptized per Jesus' instructions by ordained Priests (The Apostles and whomever they chose to succeed them).

So...Satan got the spirit? Demons got it? They believe in Jesus.


Cepha

was not aware that satan was repentant and made a believer. lol

My gosh Cepha

have you not read the book of Acts?

Red

you want to know anything...read Acts.

Rein

I hope you return

God bless you all with truth....gotta go....be back later

hey

watch the revival....see how the church truly operates in the power of Spirit and the gospel of His word...He does teach....but the needs of the people are so great and they are coming from all over the world for help that Jesus is concentrating of healing restoration.

www.ignitedchurch.com click on watch live

you might see me...lol

[cradlecathlic27]

All i saw was a lady saying things that the audience wanted to hear. I just didnt see anything special. Can anyone tell me why all the pastors or preachers have the same tune/rythym in how they talk? I just have a hard time listening to and following people like this.

[redsoxfan]

CC27 I usually just naturally talk that way like the pastor does. In the library at the grocery store, talking to my wife, filing taxes, etc. I see nothing wrong with it.

[emily445455]

So...who's Alex Jones?

[cradlecathlic27]

I think its not unique. Its not her normal talking voice and i really dont see how you could talk like that in your everyday conversations...it would be quite anoying. lol