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Post by Cepha on May 4, 2008 23:06:28 GMT -5
I understand water baptism is important. But the gift of Salvation is just that...a gift. That's not the topic. The importance of baptism isn't argued here. Neither is whether or not Salvation is a gift. That's a given. The debate is whether one has to be born again of water and of The Holy Spirit as Jesus taught. Which you deny. |
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Post by emily445455 on May 5, 2008 8:19:27 GMT -5
Actually the original topic was spiritual gifts B-)
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Post by Cepha on May 5, 2008 17:47:02 GMT -5
Actually the original topic was spiritual gifts B-) Not of the exchange you were responding to. Now, where are your scriptures that state that one doesn't have to be born again of water and of The Holy Spirit? |
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Post by teresahrc on Jun 24, 2008 18:12:56 GMT -5
Hum....maybe you should start a new thread on salvation/justification. I was hoping to read about spiritual gifts!
Spiritual gifts...mine is prophecy.
What's yours?
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Jun 24, 2008 18:22:59 GMT -5
So you can tell the future? I would love to hear more!
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Post by Cepha on Jun 24, 2008 18:42:58 GMT -5
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Post by teresahrc on Jun 26, 2008 15:58:45 GMT -5
1 cor 14 1Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. 2For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit. 3But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort. 4He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church.
So, it isn't about "telling the future" although I have known people that have had that experience. (one time though, when I was driving with my 3 kids in the car, I was going 50mph towards an intersection with a green light, and i glanced over to the intersecting road and saw a car approaching and the Lord told me "that car is not going to stop" (the car was going fast but not yet at the intersection) so I immediately hit the brakes even though the light was green, and sure enough, the car ran right though the red light, but we were all safe. That was like 3 years ago, but I still cry thinking about it)
Sometimes prophecy can be a confirmation to someone. To encourage someone in their journey or calling. Prophecy no longer brings new "revelation" as far as doctrine goes. It never contradicts the Church or scripures. Someone could give a false prophecy but not be a "False Prophet". False prophets teach false doctrine, or try to get people away from God. But we shouldn't reject all prophesy off hand because God wants to speak to us in an intimate, personal way.
Cradle catholic,
My "prophetic" words for you is that
You a precious stone, carefully placed in the House of the Lord.
Though you are precious, you are stonger than a diamond because His power is made perfect in your weakness. Do not be afraid to believe all of God's promises for you. You must believe the report of the Lord, as Caleb and Joshua did in the wilderness, who entered the Promised Land, and the Lord was with them. The Lord is with those who believe His promises. He will never leave you, nor forsake you.
teresa
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Post by myredeemerlives on Jul 4, 2008 6:40:13 GMT -5
I'm still working out my gifts... I speak in tongues, and I think I have a gift for prophesying and evangelism.
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Jul 7, 2008 0:00:57 GMT -5
ok, this is just my opinion... but i dont believe in speaking in tongues. Sorry not trying to be rude.
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Post by yarddog on Jul 10, 2008 23:24:12 GMT -5
Do you have a Spiritual Gift? Hello Cepha, I began hearing the voice of the Spirit of God over 30 yrs ago. I was getting ready to get involved in a discussion on Revelations, on another Board, when the Holy Spirit spoke and said that I wasn't called to prophesy but into faith. I put aside that discussion. Yarddog |
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Post by Cepha on Jul 11, 2008 9:44:23 GMT -5
Do you have a Spiritual Gift? Hello Cepha, I began hearing the voice of the Spirit of God over 30 yrs ago. I was getting ready to get involved in a discussion on Revelations, on another Board, when the Holy Spirit spoke and said that I wasn't called to prophesy but into faith. I put aside that discussion. Yarddog The good thing however of getting involved in a discussion is that you too learn from it. You don't neccessarily have to know what the discussion is, but by just being involved in it, you can be opened up to things you didn't understand before. I used to be afraid of even thinking about what I couldn't understand, but then, it got to the point where I began to feel that I wanted to know "why". I have some interesting writings on Revelation 12 here at the following page so that you can see what's hidden in the text: fideidefensor.proboards80.com/index.cgi?board=scripture&action=display&thread=93 |
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Post by yarddog on Jul 11, 2008 12:38:49 GMT -5
The good thing however of getting involved in a discussion is that you too learn from it. You don't neccessarily have to know what the discussion is, but by just being involved in it, you can be opened up to things you didn't understand before. Hello Cepha, I have read Revelations but I have my doubts about many people's interpretations because truely understanding them come only through direct revelation from God. What God was telling me was that I didn't need to understand that part because through faith, God would lead me where I needed to be. What God wants of me is to release all of myself unto him and trust only in him. That is my calling. God Bless, Yarddog |
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Post by Cepha on Jul 11, 2008 14:06:34 GMT -5
The good thing however of getting involved in a discussion is that you too learn from it. You don't neccessarily have to know what the discussion is, but by just being involved in it, you can be opened up to things you didn't understand before. Hello Cepha, I have read Revelations but I have my doubts about many people's interpretations because truely understanding them come only through direct revelation from God. What God was telling me was that I didn't need to understand that part because through faith, God would lead me where I needed to be. What God wants of me is to release all of myself unto him and trust only in him. That is my calling. God Bless, Yarddog I can appreciate that reliance on The Holy Spirit for guidance, but once The Holy Spirit kicks in, then that's when you get what The Bible is trying to teach you and that's when understanding is made present. That is how Revelation 12 was revealed to me. It just all came to me when I was in a pure state of openness to the scriptures. When I wanted to learn "just" to know why instead of trying to prove someone wrong, The Bible opened itself up to me. Discerning the scriptures is "my" personal gift. I've been told this by many holy persons (including high ranking Catholic Theologians as well as Protestant Religious leaders). I firmly believe in your approach to understanding scripture.  |
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Post by yarddog on Jul 11, 2008 14:51:39 GMT -5
I can appreciate that reliance on The Holy Spirit for guidance, but once The Holy Spirit kicks in, then that's when you get what The Bible is trying to teach you and that's when understanding is made present. Hello Cepha, I understand what you are saying. With me, I have received understanding of scripture at times. When I was first baptized in the Spirit I began to read the NT. After reading a section, I would sit back and relax. I wouldn't think about what I had read, only think about Christ. After a short time the Spirit would reveal how those lines pertained to me. (It is amazing how one of Jesus' teachings can apply to so many different things in our lives.) At other times, God will use the spoken word to reveal a hidden mystery and give me the verse that it apllies to. Example: I was reading in the NT when suddenly God spoke and " Jesus is the Tree of Life, the Law is the Tree of Knowledge, and the Tower of Babel represents all those people that try and attain heaven through their own means, including many christians." There have been other times when God revealed verses that show that Jesus takes the righteous back to the Garden. After the revelation, that I spoke above about, God started compelling me to read the OT scriptures. (I had read much of them but found them harsh and I liked the NT better.) Now I have a better understanding of the OT and have been blessed by them. But, let me ask you a question. Usually when there is a hidden meaning, I can feel its presence when I read it but it may take time before God reveals it to me. While I was reading Genesis 38, I was struck by something and believe that there is something there. Read it and see if you understand and get back with me. Yarddog |
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Post by Cepha on Jul 11, 2008 16:13:37 GMT -5
I can appreciate that reliance on The Holy Spirit for guidance, but once The Holy Spirit kicks in, then that's when you get what The Bible is trying to teach you and that's when understanding is made present. Hello Cepha, I understand what you are saying. With me, I have received understanding of scripture at times. When I was first baptized in the Spirit I began to read the NT. After reading a section, I would sit back and relax. I wouldn't think about what I had read, only think about Christ. After a short time the Spirit would reveal how those lines pertained to me. (It is amazing how one of Jesus' teachings can apply to so many different things in our lives.) At other times, God will use the spoken word to reveal a hidden mystery and give me the verse that it apllies to. Example: I was reading in the NT when suddenly God spoke and " Jesus is the Tree of Life, the Law is the Tree of Knowledge, and the Tower of Babel represents all those people that try and attain heaven through their own means, including many christians." There have been other times when God revealed verses that show that Jesus takes the righteous back to the Garden. After the revelation, that I spoke above about, God started compelling me to read the OT scriptures. (I had read much of them but found them harsh and I liked the NT better.) Now I have a better understanding of the OT and have been blessed by them. But, let me ask you a question. Usually when there is a hidden meaning, I can feel its presence when I read it but it may take time before God reveals it to me. While I was reading Genesis 38, I was struck by something and believe that there is something there. Read it and see if you understand and get back with me. Yarddog You are "in the zone"! I'll read Gen 38 and get back to you (it sounds familiar). |
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Post by knuckle on Jul 11, 2008 19:42:51 GMT -5
Hi Yarddog--------------------
First let me welcome you to the forum.
yes there is a lot in genesis 38 --- the key to getting at it is that it is part of Joseph's story and all it represents------Er, Onan,Tamar they all symbolize things to come.
We will give Cepha a chance to respond,then if you like,we can dig a little deeper .
much love-------------knuckle
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Post by knuckle on Jul 19, 2008 8:45:44 GMT -5
Cepha,Yarddog--------------
the ball is in play if you guys are wanting to look at this up close
much love------------knuckle
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Post by yarddog on Jul 19, 2008 11:35:27 GMT -5
Cepha,Yarddog-------------- the ball is in play if you guys are wanting to look at this up close much love------------knuckle Hey Knuckle- head, oops just kidding ;D I was waiting to see what Cepha said about it. But the thing that struck me was what is "Why did Jesus' lineage go through Tamar?" When Reading Genesis, chapter 38 just seems a little out of place. There is so much about Joseph in the surrounding chapters and 38 is stuck in there about Judah's irdeal with Tamar. As I was reading it, the Spirit brought to mind about Jesus' lineage. There is a hidden mystery in there. The whole chapter seems prophetic about Christ. Matthew, when giving the lineage of Jesus points out Tamar. Also, how does Ruth tie into all of this? Yarddog |
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Post by knuckle on Jul 19, 2008 12:31:50 GMT -5
Hi Yarddog----------
In the book of Ruth – Ruth is spoken of well throughout the entire book. She is a picture of the latter rain, of the coming in of the gentiles. She was not a Jewess, she was not of Israel. According to the flesh, she had no business receiving blessings from God or expecting blessings from God. But, of course, her heart was in the right place. She is an ancestor of Christ.Her wedding to Boaz is a shadow of the marriage supper of the Lamb
When Jacob was blessing all of the tribes of Israel this is what he said of Judah:
Genesis 49:10 The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be.
So Judah was, through King David and his offspring, to be the ruling tribe of Israel "until Shiloh come." Judah had several sons but God was "not pleased" with Judah's sons and was quickly slaying Judah's son's until the only way Judah could possibly bring forth "Shiloh" was through Tamar. But Judah did not trust God to bring forth a son through his son. After all, Judah's sons had all been slain by God. Only Shelah was left. So this whole sad story about how Judah sent Tamar away back to her father, lied to Tamar and wanted her "burnt" was all for the purpose of bringing forth "Shiloh."
Genesis 38:24 And it came to pass about three months after, that it was told Judah, saying, Tamar thy daughter in law hath played the harlot; and also, behold, she is with child by whoredom. And Judah said, Bring her forth, and let her be burnt.
If Tamar was "with child by whoredom," then there must be a whoremonger somewhere. Of course that would be Judah. The man who wanted a woman destroyed ended up being unable to even 'cast the first stone' much less burn her. Was Tamar a whore? In no way was Tamar a whore. Tamar had spent many years in her father's house, patiently waiting for Judah to keep his word and give his son to her for a husband. Just as Christ refused to condemn the adulterous woman to death, so also was Tamar proven unworthy of death when her accuser was shown to be the one who had lain with the woman he wanted put to death.
Now if we do a little back ground work on the chapter we see that Er and Onan were not able to pass seed unto Tamar--they were unworthy and God slays them Er for his evil ways and Onan for no correcting the situation -- they are pictures of the apostate church (Er) and the self righteous church (Onan) Tamar is a picture of the Bide of Christ and Judah is of course fleshly Israel
You will note that Tamar later judges and corrects Judah---- the millennium
Tamar gives birth to twins Zarah and Pharez(break forth) who is the ancestor of Christ and represents those who go forward in faith where Zarah is a picture of those who hear but turn back the red thread being a picture of sin
this is just kind of skimming over the chapter but this thene is repeated over and over though out the bible (Issac and Ishmael,Esau and Jacob,wise vs foolish virgins,the parables of Jesus etc)
much love-----------knuckle
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Post by yarddog on Jul 19, 2008 13:11:54 GMT -5
Hello Knuckle,
Thanks for your understanding but something else is there. God has done this to me before and in the time of his choosing, suddenly spoke and revealed.
I must wait for him to reveal and then it will be so clear.
God Bless,
Yarddog
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