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Post by emily445455 on Apr 21, 2008 14:06:57 GMT -5
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Apr 21, 2008 14:48:10 GMT -5
Hey, could you ask that person that quoted that on carm where she found it?
I googled that saint and cant find that statement and would like to see the source!
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Apr 21, 2008 14:49:06 GMT -5
I say this, because i dont its true, because its not what we believe or what we have been taught.
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Post by emily445455 on Apr 21, 2008 14:51:33 GMT -5
Hey, could you ask that person that quoted that on carm where she found it? I googled that saint and cant find that statement and would like to see the source! Can't. The thread is closed and I think the person disabled private messages. |
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Apr 21, 2008 14:53:01 GMT -5
well, i tried to find it and cant...maybe you could?
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Post by emily445455 on Apr 21, 2008 14:58:20 GMT -5
Yes. Just google the quote itself.
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Apr 21, 2008 15:23:27 GMT -5
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Post by emily445455 on Apr 21, 2008 15:31:44 GMT -5
Too long, studying for Sign.
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Apr 21, 2008 16:27:21 GMT -5
Hey you posted the quote, you must want to know something about it...
If you are into this sort of thing, Louis de Montfort and Alphonsus Liguori are also great at it. Florid language in prayer is rather common in Catholic (and especially Mediterranean) piety. And, of course, downloaded off the Internet without context or explanation, such prayers are a rich resource for people looking for ways to be shocked by Catholic devotion to Mary. Indeed, a favorite practice by those terrified of Marian piety is to pore over a particularly gushy prayer or devotion to Mary and footnote it as evidence of the alleged "theological errors of Romanism."[/b]
What this practice invariably fails to take into account is that such language is poetic, not doctrinal. It is commonplace for poetic language, under the influence of love, to make extreme and—strictly speaking—inaccurate statements. Moreover, prayers are often phrased in ways that heighten emotional aspirations. Prayer, even when florid language is used, can too often be emotionally dry. Many saints, to say nothing of everyday Catholics, use such language in order to induce their emotions to follow their intellects.
Looking to a hyperbolic prayer to Mary or a saint may be a way of grasping of how Catholics with a strong piety feel about Mary or the saint. But it is a bad way of critiquing Catholic theology. And the surest proof of that is gained not by pouring over Catholic prayers and devotions but by looking at any language by anybody when he is writing under the influence of love.
Here, for example, is Elizabeth Barrett Browning’s "Sonnet 43" from her Sonnets from the Portuguese. It was written for her husband, the poet Robert Browning, and was not intended for publication until Mr. Browning, impressed with the work of his "Little Portugee," insisted that she publish her poetry. Any sensible person reading this passionate love poetry recognizes what he is reading and does not demand that Mrs. Browning write with systematic accuracy.
But let us briefly subject poor Elizabeth’s work to the same kind of scrutiny that poor Augustine’s or Thomas of Villanova’s or Louis de Montfort’s equally passionate poetry receives from critics of the Catholic faith. Let us, with their gimlet eye for the heretical, highlight the damning passages that clearly prove the sinister theological errors informing . . . er . . . Browningism:
How do I love thee? Let me count the ways.
I love thee to the depth and breadth and height
My soul can reach, when feeling out of sight
For the ends of Being and Ideal Grace.
I love thee to the level of everyday’s
Most quiet need, by sun and candlelight.
I love thee freely, as men strive for Right;
I love thee purely, as they turn from Praise.
I love thee with the passion put to use
In my old griefs, and with my childhood’s faith.
I love thee with a love I seemed to lose
With my lost saints,—I love thee with the breath,
Smiles, tears, of all my life!—and, if God choose,
I shall but love thee better after death.
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Post by emily445455 on Apr 21, 2008 16:34:25 GMT -5
So it's a poem prayer?
But it's still a prayer...right? Or does the poem part make it not a real prayer?
I'm confused.
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Apr 21, 2008 16:41:31 GMT -5
Its not a prayer its a Catholic poem
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Post by emily445455 on Apr 21, 2008 16:46:04 GMT -5
...so it's a lieing poem? Why would someone write a poem about untrue things...
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Post by Cepha on Apr 21, 2008 20:24:39 GMT -5
My first thought instantly is that you spent entirely too much time researching that instance and writing a thread on it M. You shouldn't even be thinking about that. You don't accept the role of Mary as Christianity has always accepted her, so you shouldn't be wasting time talking about her or looking for countless of ways of discrediting Chrisitian honor of her. That's my "opinion". |
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Post by Cepha on Apr 21, 2008 20:32:09 GMT -5
"Listen, all you who desire the kingdom of God: Honor the Most Blessed Virgin Mary, and you will find life and eternal salvation" (Psalt. B.V. ps. 48). Or this from St. Thomas of Villanova: "O Mary, we poor sinners know no other refuge than thee, for thou art our only hope, and on thee we rely for our salvation." If you are into this sort of thing, Louis de Montfort and Alphonsus Liguori are also great at it. Florid language in prayer is rather common in Catholic (and especially Mediterranean) piety. And, of course, downloaded off the Internet without context or explanation, such prayers are a rich resource for people looking for ways to be shocked by Catholic devotion to Mary.Indeed, a favorite practice by those terrified of Marian piety is to pore over a particularly gushy prayer or devotion to Mary and footnote it as evidence of the alleged "theological errors of Romanism." What this practice invariably fails to take into account is that such language is poetic, not doctrinal. It is commonplace for poetic language, under the influence of love, to make extreme and—strictly speaking—inaccurate statements. Moreover, prayers are often phrased in ways that heighten emotional aspirations. Prayer, even when florid language is used, can too often be emotionally dry. Many saints, to say nothing of everyday Catholics, use such language in order to induce their emotions to follow their intellects. Looking to a hyperbolic prayer to Mary or a saint may be a way of grasping of how Catholics with a strong piety feel about Mary or the saint. But it is a bad way of critiquing Catholic theology. And the surest proof of that is gained not by pouring over Catholic prayers and devotions but by looking at any language by anybody when he is writing under the influence of love. www.catholic.com/thisrock/2001/0101fea4.asp |
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Post by Cepha on Apr 21, 2008 20:41:02 GMT -5
Our equality with God through righteousness
Creflo Dollar
M...are all Protestants thinking that they are equal to God through righteousness?
One would be a fool to believe that.
But look at what he wrote.
Does he represent you M?
One person's personal feeling does not represent an entire faith.
If it does, then you're in way more trouble than we are. You are part of a faith that equates itself to God Himself.
M, if you really want t know what Catholics think about The Virgin Mary and if we worship her, you wouldn't go to a anti-Catholic source. Their words should be subject to suspicion to you.
Go to the source, then go to the anti-Catholic sites.
Then, if you dare...compare the notes.
There, you will find the truth.
God bless your heart for seeking truth M. That's always a good thing, but to seek truth, you must first be honest and nuetral.
You have to begin from a point of openess. Otherwise, you will only allow and ingest what "seems" right to you based on the limited experiences you've had up until that point.
I am telling you this as the big brother you don't consider me to be.
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Post by Cepha on Apr 21, 2008 20:41:40 GMT -5
Start here... www.scborromeo.org/ccc/p123a9p6.htmParagraph 6. Mary - Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church 963 Since the Virgin Mary's role in the mystery of Christ and the Spirit has been treated, it is fitting now to consider her place in the mystery of the Church. "The Virgin Mary . . . is acknowledged and honored as being truly the Mother of God and of the redeemer. . . . She is 'clearly the mother of the members of Christ' . . . since she has by her charity joined in bringing about the birth of believers in the Church, who are members of its head."502 "Mary, Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church."503 I. MARY'S MOTHERHOOD WITH REGARD TO THE CHURCH Wholly united with her Son . . . 964 Mary's role in the Church is inseparable from her union with Christ and flows directly from it. "This union of the mother with the Son in the work of salvation is made manifest from the time of Christ's virginal conception up to his death";504 it is made manifest above all at the hour of his Passion: Thus the Blessed Virgin advanced in her pilgrimage of faith, and faithfully persevered in her union with her Son unto the cross. There she stood, in keeping with the divine plan, enduring with her only begotten Son the intensity of his suffering, joining herself with his sacrifice in her mother's heart, and lovingly consenting to the immolation of this victim, born of her: to be given, by the same Christ Jesus dying on the cross, as a mother to his disciple, with these words: "Woman, behold your son."505 965 After her Son's Ascension, Mary "aided the beginnings of the Church by her prayers."506 In her association with the apostles and several women, "we also see Mary by her prayers imploring the gift of the Spirit, who had already overshadowed her in the Annunciation."507 . . . also in her Assumption 966 "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death."508 The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son's Resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of other Christians: In giving birth you kept your virginity; in your Dormition you did not leave the world, O Mother of God, but were joined to the source of Life. You conceived the living God and, by your prayers, will deliver our souls from death.509 . . . she is our Mother in the order of grace 967 By her complete adherence to the Father's will, to his Son's redemptive work, and to every prompting of the Holy Spirit, the Virgin Mary is the Church's model of faith and charity. Thus she is a "preeminent and . . . wholly unique member of the Church"; indeed, she is the "exemplary realization" (typus)510 of the Church. 968 Her role in relation to the Church and to all humanity goes still further. "In a wholly singular way she cooperated by her obedience, faith, hope, and burning charity in the Savior's work of restoring supernatural life to souls. For this reason she is a mother to us in the order of grace."511 969 "This motherhood of Mary in the order of grace continues uninterruptedly from the consent which she loyally gave at the Annunciation and which she sustained without wavering beneath the cross, until the eternal fulfillment of all the elect. Taken up to heaven she did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation . . . . Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix."512 970 "Mary's function as mother of men in no way obscures or diminishes this unique mediation of Christ, but rather shows its power. But the Blessed Virgin's salutary influence on men . . . flows forth from the superabundance of the merits of Christ, rests on his mediation, depends entirely on it, and draws all its power from it."513 "No creature could ever be counted along with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer; but just as the priesthood of Christ is shared in various ways both by his ministers and the faithful, and as the one goodness of God is radiated in different ways among his creatures, so also the unique mediation of the Redeemer does not exclude but rather gives rise to a manifold cooperation which is but a sharing in this one source."514 * II. DEVOTION TO THE BLESSED VIRGIN 971 "All generations will call me blessed": "The Church's devotion to the Blessed Virgin is intrinsic to Christian worship."515 The Church rightly honors "the Blessed Virgin with special devotion. From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of 'Mother of God,' to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs. . . . This very special devotion . . . differs essentially from the adoration which is given to the incarnate Word and equally to the Father and the Holy Spirit, and greatly fosters this adoration."516 The liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God and Marian prayer, such as the rosary, an "epitome of the whole Gospel," express this devotion to the Virgin Mary.517 III. MARY - ESCHATOLOGICAL ICON OF THE CHURCH 972 After speaking of the Church, her origin, mission, and destiny, we can find no better way to conclude than by looking to Mary. In her we contemplate what the Church already is in her mystery on her own "pilgrimage of faith," and what she will be in the homeland at the end of her journey. There, "in the glory of the Most Holy and Undivided Trinity," "in the communion of all the saints,"518 the Church is awaited by the one she venerates as Mother of her Lord and as her own mother. In the meantime the Mother of Jesus, in the glory which she possesses in body and soul in heaven, is the image and beginning of the Church as it is to be perfected in the world to come. Likewise she shines forth on earth until the day of the Lord shall come, a sign of certain hope and comfort to the pilgrim People of God.519 IN BRIEF 973 By pronouncing her "fiat" at the Annunciation and giving her consent to the Incarnation, Mary was already collaborating with the whole work her Son was to accomplish. She is mother wherever he is Savior and head of the Mystical Body. 974 The Most Blessed Virgin Mary, when the course of her earthly life was completed, was taken up body and soul into the glory of heaven, where she already shares in the glory of her Son's Resurrection, anticipating the resurrection of all members of his Body. 975 "We believe that the Holy Mother of God, the new Eve, Mother of the Church, continues in heaven to exercise her maternal role on behalf of the members of Christ" (Paul VI, CPG § 15). |
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Post by emily445455 on Apr 21, 2008 21:02:50 GMT -5
My first thought instantly is that you spent entirely too much time researching that instance and writing a thread on it M. You shouldn't even be thinking about that. You don't accept the role of Mary as Christianity has always accepted her, so you shouldn't be wasting time talking about her or looking for countless of ways of discrediting Chrisitian honor of her. That's my "opinion". Actually I wasn't looking to start anything...I just wanted to know what you all thought. |
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Post by Cepha on Apr 21, 2008 21:07:12 GMT -5
M, this is you (the one on the bulldozer):youtube.com/watch?v=GimtDrTVv9A 
This is what Jesus looks like M...
Here, The Pope forgives and prays with and for the man who attempted to murder him. 
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Apr 21, 2008 21:07:35 GMT -5
I mean...did you really think that we were lying to ya when we said a thousand times that we DONT worship Mary? You can keep coming with these questions and false acusations all day long and we will keep showing you the truth. |
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Post by Cepha on Apr 21, 2008 21:07:48 GMT -5
My first thought instantly is that you spent entirely too much time researching that instance and writing a thread on it M. You shouldn't even be thinking about that. You don't accept the role of Mary as Christianity has always accepted her, so you shouldn't be wasting time talking about her or looking for countless of ways of discrediting Chrisitian honor of her. That's my "opinion". Actually I wasn't looking to start anything...I just wanted to know what you all thought. That's what we think M. You asked, we responded. God bless. |
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