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Post by Cepha on Apr 4, 2008 13:13:45 GMT -5
My main Protestant!
Gotta appreciate this man.
Yes, he lost it at the end of his life, but wow, did he have some beautiful things to teach us, didn't he?
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Post by Cepha on Apr 4, 2008 13:14:44 GMT -5
Martin Luther:
Mary the Mother of God
Throughout his life Luther maintained without change the historic Christian affirmation that Mary was the Mother of God:
"She is rightly called not only the mother of the man, but also the Mother of God ... It is certain that Mary is the Mother of the real and true God."1
Perpetual Virginity
Again throughout his life Luther held that Mary's perpetual virginity was an article of faith for all Christians - and interpreted Galatians 4:4 to mean that Christ was "born of a woman" alone.
"It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a Virgin."2
The Immaculate Conception
Yet again the Immaculate Conception was a doctrine Luther defended to his death (as confirmed by Lutheran scholars like Arthur Piepkorn). Like Augustine, Luther saw an unbreakable link between Mary's divine maternity, perpetual virginity and Immaculate Conception. Although his formulation of the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception was not clear-cut, he held that her soul was devoid of sin from the beginning:
"But the other conception, namely the infusion of the soul, it is piously and suitably believed, was without any sin, so that while the soul was being infused, she would at the same time be cleansed from original sin and adorned with the gifts of God to receive the holy soul thus infused. And thus, in the very moment in which she began to live, she was without all sin..."3
Assumption
Although he did not make it an article of faith, Luther said of the doctrine of the Assumption:
"There can be no doubt that the Virgin Mary is in heaven. How it happened we do not know."4
Honor to Mary
Despite his unremitting criticism of the traditional doctrines of Marian mediation and intercession, to the end Luther continued to proclaim that Mary should be honored. He made it a point to preach on her feast days.
"The veneration of Mary is inscribed in the very depths of the human heart."5
"Is Christ only to be adored? Or is the holy Mother of God rather not to be honoured? This is the woman who crushed the Serpent's head. Hear us. For your Son denies you nothing."6 Luther made this statement in his last sermon at Wittenberg in January 1546.
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Post by Cepha on Apr 4, 2008 13:19:29 GMT -5
Martin Luther on Protestantism:
"I never approved of a schism, nor will I approve of it for all eternity...
It is not by separating from the Church that we can make her better."
Martin Luther
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Post by Cepha on Apr 4, 2008 13:21:24 GMT -5
Anyone who is to find Christ must first find the church. How could anyone know where Christ is and what faith is in him unless he knew where his believers are?
Martin Luther
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Post by Cepha on Apr 4, 2008 13:23:28 GMT -5
Luther on The Holy Eucharist!
Martin Luther believed in the Real Presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. He became indignant when groups, who had followed him out of the Catholic Church, rejected the presence of Jesus in the Eucharist. He deplored the fact that every milkmaid and farmhand thought they could interpret scripture correctly. Here he is in his own words.
"Who, but the devil, has granted such license of wresting the words of the holy Scripture? Who ever read in the Scriptures, that my body is the same as the sign of my body? or, that is is the same as it signifies? What language in the world ever spoke so? It is only then the devil, that imposes upon us by these fanatical men. Not one of the Fathers of the Church, though so numerous, ever spoke as the Sacramentarians: not one of them ever said, It is only bread and wine; or, the body and blood of Christ is not there present.
Surely, it is not credible, nor possible, since they often speak, and repeat their sentiments, that they should never (if they thought so) not so much as once, say, or let slip these words: It is bread only; or the body of Christ is not there, especially it being of great importance, that men should not be deceived. Certainly, in so many Fathers, and in so many writings, the negative might at least be found in one of them, had they thought the body and blood of Christ were not really present: but they are all of them unanimous.”
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Post by Cepha on Apr 15, 2008 15:33:47 GMT -5
Why are Protestants now rebuking Martin Luther the man who gave them the foundation for their doctrines?
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Apr 15, 2008 16:42:18 GMT -5
Because they are reformers! They just keep reforming!
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Post by Cepha on Apr 16, 2008 17:44:57 GMT -5
Because they are reformers! They just keep reforming! LOL! Like The Transformers! youtube.com/watch?v=fogyZABLWR4Transformers! More than meets the eye! Transformers! Christians in disguise! Always protesting the Deceptacons! LMBO!  |
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Apr 16, 2008 20:36:18 GMT -5
;D ;D ;D
LOL
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Post by Cepha on Apr 17, 2008 8:07:36 GMT -5
“I never approved of a schism, nor will I approve of it for all eternity. . . . That the Roman Church is more honored by God than all others is not to be doubted.
St, Peter and St. Paul, forty-six Popes, some hundreds of thousands of martyrs, have laid down their lives in its communion, having overcome Hell and the world; so that the eyes of God rest on the Roman church with special favor.
Though nowadays everything is in a wretched state, it is no ground for separating from the Church. On the contrary, the worse things are going, the more should we hold close to her, for it is not by separating from the Church that we can make her better.
We must not separate from God on account of any work of the devil, nor cease to have fellowship with the children of God who are still abiding in the pale of Rome on account of the multitude of the ungodly.
There is no sin, no amount of evil, which should be permitted to dissolve the bond of charity or break the bond of unity of the body. For love can do all things, and nothing is difficult to those who are united.”
Martin Luther to Pope Leo X,
January 6, 1519
(...more than a year after the Ninety-Five Theses
quoted in The Facts about Luther, 356)
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Post by Cepha on Apr 17, 2008 8:09:28 GMT -5
“There are almost as many sects and beliefs as there are heads;
this one will not admit Baptism;
that one rejects the Sacrament of the altar;
another places another world between the present one and the day of judgment;
some teach that Jesus Christ is not God.
There is not an individual, however clownish he may be, who does not claim to be inspired by the Holy Ghost, and who does not put forth as prophecies his ravings and dreams.”
Martin Luther
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Post by alfie on Apr 17, 2008 17:44:32 GMT -5
“There are almost as many sects and beliefs as there are heads; this one will not admit Baptism; that one rejects the Sacrament of the altar; another places another world between the present one and the day of judgment; some teach that Jesus Christ is not God. There is not an individual, however clownish he may be, who does not claim to be inspired by the Holy Ghost, and who does not put forth as prophecies his ravings and dreams.” Martin Luther Protestants almost always differ on doctrine...not dogma. For example some Protestants believe in the rapture and some do not. So what! Whether someone believes in the rapture or not does not affect ones salvation. |
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Post by Cepha on Apr 17, 2008 21:04:14 GMT -5
Mark 3:25 "And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand."1 Corinthians 1:10 "Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ,
that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you;
but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment." You're right...it's not a Biblical event. It's a man-made doctrine which combined several events in The Bible, created in the 1800's by John Darby. "The Rapture" doesn't exist in The Holy Bible. 
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Post by Cepha on Apr 18, 2008 20:54:37 GMT -5
"I never approved of a schism, nor will I approve of it for all eternity. . . . That the Roman Church is more honored by God than all others is not to be doubted.
St, Peter and St. Paul, forty-six Popes, some hundreds of thousands of martyrs, have laid down their lives in its communion, having overcome Hell and the world; so that the eyes of God rest on the Roman church with special favor.
Though nowadays everything is in a wretched state, it is no ground for separating from the Church. On the contrary, the worse things are going, the more should we hold close to her, for it is not by separating from the Church that we can make her better.
We must not separate from God on account of any work of the devil, nor cease to have fellowship with the children of God who are still abiding in the pale of Rome on account of the multitude of the ungodly.
There is no sin, no amount of evil, which should be permitted to dissolve the bond of charity or break the bond of unity of the body. For love can do all things, and nothing is difficult to those who are united.”
Martin Luther to Pope Leo X,
January 6, 1519
(...more than a year after the Ninety-Five Theses
quoted in The Facts about Luther, 356)------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Hey Alfie,Does this sound contradict himself when he says the following"Martin Luther - "...I do not accept the authority of popes and councils, for they have contradicted each other..."Will the real Martin Luther please stand up? 
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Post by righteousone on May 12, 2008 20:03:28 GMT -5
My main Protestant! Gotta appreciate this man. Yes, he lost it at the end of his life, but wow, did he have some beautiful things to teach us, didn't he? Appreciate? THE MAN WAS A HERETIC. |
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Post by Cepha on May 12, 2008 20:21:47 GMT -5
Heretic, absolutely!
But, he's a great tool to use against those who follow his teachings!
See, while they base their faith on his doctrines (Sola Scriptura, Sola Fide, etc...AKA The Five Solas), they aren't exposed to his Catholic Beliefs (nor John Calvin's, nor Ulrich Zwingli's).
Once Luther is thrown in your face, you can use the quotes I posted to show them what Luther thought about The Eucharist, The Virgin Mary, Confession to a Priest, The Saints, etc...
Ususally, they dissappear right after you show his quotes or they then turn on Luther and they begin to discredit him (yet they keep his doctrines).
This reveals the prophecy of Mattew 7 when Jesus compared one who bases their faith on the doctrines of Luther (who was a man made of soil aka sand) and on those who base their faith on the doctrines as brought to us by the house built upon rock (Peter):
Matthew 7
24Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:
25And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.
26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.
Now...ask yourself...which house of worship was based on Luther and fell apart into 34,000 + different denominations?
Which one was based upon the rock (Peter) and is still standing stronger than ever?
Do the math.
The Catholic Church!
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Post by alfie on May 12, 2008 22:43:49 GMT -5
"I never approved of a schism, nor will I approve of it for all eternity. . . . That the Roman Church is more honored by God than all others is not to be doubted.
St, Peter and St. Paul, forty-six Popes, some hundreds of thousands of martyrs, have laid down their lives in its communion, having overcome Hell and the world; so that the eyes of God rest on the Roman church with special favor.
Though nowadays everything is in a wretched state, it is no ground for separating from the Church. On the contrary, the worse things are going, the more should we hold close to her, for it is not by separating from the Church that we can make her better.
We must not separate from God on account of any work of the devil, nor cease to have fellowship with the children of God who are still abiding in the pale of Rome on account of the multitude of the ungodly.
There is no sin, no amount of evil, which should be permitted to dissolve the bond of charity or break the bond of unity of the body. For love can do all things, and nothing is difficult to those who are united.”
Martin Luther to Pope Leo X,
January 6, 1519
(...more than a year after the Ninety-Five Theses
quoted in The Facts about Luther, 356)------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Hey Alfie,Does this sound contradict himself when he says the following"Martin Luther - "...I do not accept the authority of popes and councils, for they have contradicted each other..."Will the real Martin Luther please stand up? "Unless I am convicted [convinced] of error by the testimony of Scripture or (since I put no trust in the unsupported authority of Pope or councils, since it is plain that they have often erred and often contradicted themselves) by manifest reasoning, I stand convicted [convinced] by the Scriptures to which I have appealed, and my conscience is taken captive by God's word, I cannot and will not recant anything, for to act against our conscience is neither safe for us, nor open to us." Excerpts from his account of the confrontation at the Diet of Worms (1521) |
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Post by alfie on May 12, 2008 22:56:39 GMT -5
"I never approved of a schism, nor will I approve of it for all eternity. . . . That the Roman Church is more honored by God than all others is not to be doubted.
St, Peter and St. Paul, forty-six Popes, some hundreds of thousands of martyrs, have laid down their lives in its communion, having overcome Hell and the world; so that the eyes of God rest on the Roman church with special favor.
Though nowadays everything is in a wretched state, it is no ground for separating from the Church. On the contrary, the worse things are going, the more should we hold close to her, for it is not by separating from the Church that we can make her better.
We must not separate from God on account of any work of the devil, nor cease to have fellowship with the children of God who are still abiding in the pale of Rome on account of the multitude of the ungodly.
There is no sin, no amount of evil, which should be permitted to dissolve the bond of charity or break the bond of unity of the body. For love can do all things, and nothing is difficult to those who are united.”
Martin Luther to Pope Leo X,
January 6, 1519
(...more than a year after the Ninety-Five Theses
quoted in The Facts about Luther, 356)------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Hey Alfie,Does this sound contradict himself when he says the following"Martin Luther - "...I do not accept the authority of popes and councils, for they have contradicted each other..."Will the real Martin Luther please stand up? And yet under the threat of death he refused to recant his Ninety-Five theses along with the most impotant belief in the Bible (faith alone for salvation) which got him excommunicated from the Catholic Church. |
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Post by alfie on May 12, 2008 23:03:42 GMT -5
If it wasn't for Martin Luther there would not have been a Reformation and if there had not been a Reformation than there would not have been a United States of America and I would not be posting on this forum. Praise the "LORD" for the REFORMATION!
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Post by Cepha on May 13, 2008 4:01:49 GMT -5
[/quote]
That was in 1521...but look at what Martin Luther taught in his own sermons "after" that:
Martin Luther, Founder of the Reform, Speaks on Mary
In his sermon of August 15, 1522, the last time Martin Luther preached on the Feast of the Assumption, he stated:
There can be no doubt that the Virgin Mary is in heaven. How it happened we do not know. And since the Holy Spirit has told us nothing about it, we can make of it no article of faith . . . It is enough to know that she lives in Christ.
The veneration of Mary is inscribed in the very depths of the human heart. (Sermon, September 1, 1522).
[She is the] highest woman and the noblest gem in Christianity after Christ . . . She is nobility, wisdom, and holiness personified. We can never honor her enough. Still honor and praise must be given to her in such a way as to injure neither Christ nor the Scriptures. (Sermon, Christmas, 1531).
No woman is like you. You are more than Eve or Sarah, blessed above all nobility, wisdom, and sanctity. (Sermon, Feast of the Visitation, 1537).
One should honor Mary as she herself wished and as she expressed it in the Magnificat. She praised God for his deeds. How then can we praise her? The true honor of Mary is the honor of God, the praise of God's grace . . . Mary is nothing for the sake of herself, but for the sake of Christ . . . Mary does not wish that we come to her, but through her to God. (Explanation of the Magnificat, 1521).
Luther gives the Blessed Virgin the exalted position of "Spiritual Mother" for Christians:
It is the consolation and the superabundant goodness of God, that man is able to exult in such a treasure. Mary is his true Mother .. (Sermon, Christmas, 1522)
Mary is the Mother of Jesus and the Mother of all of us even though it was Christ alone who reposed on her knees . . . If he is ours, we ought to be in his situation; there where he is, we ought also to be and all that he has ought to be ours, and his mother is also our mother. (Sermon, Christmas, 1529).
Martin Luther had the belief of Mary's Immaculate Conception, Luther's words follow:
It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary's soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God's gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin" (Sermon: "On the Day of the Conception of the Mother of God," 1527).
She is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin- something exceedingly great. For God's grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil. (Personal {"Little"} Prayer Book, 1522).
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