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Post by Cepha on Aug 5, 2008 13:34:43 GMT -5
Can you stop with the word "retarded"? My niece has severe autism and my husband is at this very moment getting paid minimum wage because he chose to work at a home for disabled adults, many of whom are "retarded". thanks teresa Teresa, Por favor...let me handle him. Let me keep him on topic so I can prove him wrong, line by line with Scripture. |
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Post by teresahrc on Aug 5, 2008 13:35:20 GMT -5
Watchman, do you believe all children will be in heaven apart from a "confession" of Jesus?
Answer that first, then I will answer the Muslim question.
teresa
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Post by teresahrc on Aug 5, 2008 13:36:25 GMT -5
Ok Cepha, but remember
all who draw the sword will die by the sword!
peace to you all
goodbye for now
teresa
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Post by teresahrc on Aug 5, 2008 13:38:15 GMT -5
He will honor your prayers watchman!
peace
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Post by Cepha on Aug 5, 2008 13:41:29 GMT -5
Ok Cepha, but remember all who draw the sword will die by the sword! peace to you all goodbye for now teresa Look at what I wrote when I first started this board about Anti-Catholic behavior..."who" do these statements written about 3 months ago remind you of? ____________________________________________________ Re: Anti-Catholic Forums « Reply #1 on May 14, 2008, 10:54pm » -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Mean and nasty atmosphere. The sugar/salt statements like: "I tell you this with christ's love...repent or burn in hell you pagan!" Become enraged when asked for proof of their beliefs. Break down scriptures into fragments, piece them together creating a new belief, then call it a Christian belief. Create a debate, then, go and pull every anti-Catholic dogma they can when you begin to answer their question trying to take the focus off of the discussion and introducing new points to a conversation that never were part of the debate in the first place. Complain about everything. As long as they do it, it's no problem, but when you do it against them, then, it's a problem. Run out of time. All of a sudden, they don't have time to be on a forum anymore. Take scriptural verses out of context. |
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Post by Cepha on Aug 5, 2008 13:47:38 GMT -5
1 Corinthians 15
1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand;
Here, Paul is addressing fellow Christians. They have already been evangelized as seen in is past tense usage of the words. Supposedly, they are in accordance with his teachings.
Do we agree as to what verse 1 means?
If yes, we can go on to Verse 2.
If not, we can debate it's meaning.
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Post by Cepha on Aug 5, 2008 21:47:45 GMT -5
You can explain verse 2 if you like but if you read the post above yours you will see that the entire chapter has been explained. I do however agree with you interpretation of verse 1 Matter of fact please explain to me 1st Corinthians 15 verse by verse, I will be gone for a couple of hours, but if you could explain to me 1st Corinthians 15:1-19 verse by verse I will read through it I am sure we will agree, but if I have any questions on any verse. I will ask them when I get back and then we can move on from verse 20 forward. Hey, I was thinking. I'm ashamed about how I reacted to what you said. I'm sorry. I realized that you tried to reach out and to amend some of your hurtful words and I was in Templar Mode. Anyway, I offer you this cyber-olive branch. The best way that I can show you that you are wrong about your beliefs about us is by truly reflecting Christ. I'd rather lose an argument and be a true Christian, than to win it in an unChristianlike manner. God bless you (and I really and truly mean that...I'm not just saying it to say it as some who seem to throw those powerful words around as if it were just a common greeting with no true feelings).  |
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Post by Cepha on Aug 5, 2008 21:48:44 GMT -5
Oh by the way WM, I'll go through 1 Cor 15 tomorrow and have my interpretation of the verses then.
Good night.
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Post by Cepha on Aug 6, 2008 7:16:49 GMT -5
Now you have made me fell bad, I have made some post since this afternoon that i need to apologize for, and I am not just throwing those words around either. These type of discussion do sometimes bring the worst out of me and I too am truly sorry for what I have said, some you have seen and some you may see later, but you will notice that they were b4 this post. I would like to discuss these matters without the name calling and I would be happy to continue the 1st Corinthians discussion tomorrow. May God lead us both into all truths.  Consider it water under the bridge.  |
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Post by teresahrc on Aug 6, 2008 9:39:35 GMT -5
Ok boys, I'll let you out of time out since you both apologized, now don't do it again!
teresa
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Post by teresahrc on Aug 6, 2008 10:03:19 GMT -5
Watchman, I will now answer your question, but also with my opinion only.
I know and believe with all my heart that Jesus is the ONLY way to the Father. I'm ready and willing to live and die for this fact.
However, I also believe like you do that children (or those who cannot possible understand sin or salvation, like my niece and those mentally retarded adults that my husband works with) will be in heaven. But are they going to heaven APART from Jesus sacrifice on the cross? NO, I believe that it is through Jesus alone that they are saved, even if they don't comprehend the gospel. Take Moses and Elijah for example. We know they are in heaven, because Jesus spoke to them on the Mount of Transfiguration. But they didn't "confess" the name of Jesus, because when they lived on earth, He hadn't yet come. Then how were they saved? By faith, and God applied Jesus' sacrifice to them even though they couldn't have possibly heard the gospel because of the chronological constraints.
Now, going back to Muslims. Can a Muslim get to heaven without confession of Jesus as the Son of God? Now, I can only give my opinion obviously, because I'm not God. First, as I said before, I believe that the kingdom of Heaven belongs to all children. That would include Muslim children. And then there are Adult Muslims that are mentally retarded etc. I can't imagine Jesus sending them to hell. So finally, what about an adult Muslim who is able to comprehend sin and salvation? I would say, yes, it is possible for them to "get to heaven" but perhaps through the eye of a needle. If the constraints of time(as in the case of Moses) didn't keep certain people from heaven, then who are we to say that the constraints of geography (that is for those who haven't yet heard the gospel) must keep someone from heaven? Yet, if they are saved, it is not APART from faith in Jesus, because just as God applied the Atoning Sacrifice of Jesus to Moses and Elijah so they could be saved, though they hadn't heard the gospel, I have to believe that it is possible for God to do the same today if He wills.
That is my opinion. Please know watchman, that for the past 10 years, my husband and I have been preparing to be missionaries to Muslims. We have been to Turkey, (my husband has 3 times and he has lived in the middle east) and we have been missionaries to Muslims here (USA) and evangelized them. We also have discipled MBB (Muslim Background Believers) and have had numerous ministries to Muslims, prayer meetings, prayer walks, sending scripture into Muslim countries etc. We plan to move to Turkey to preach the Gospel. So obviously, we believe that Muslims are lost apart from faith in Christ. But when you have walked the streets in a Muslim country, watching thousands of souls walk by who have never heard the gospel, you have to be humble and hope (if even secretly) that somehow God will have mercy on them. I say that with fear and trembling. But ALL souls are saved through Jesus alone.
This is my opinion, not necessarily an "official" church opinion. Please don't judge me for my opinion!
peace
teresa
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Post by Cepha on Aug 6, 2008 11:14:22 GMT -5
cepha, maybe we can finish our study on 1st Corinthians 15, in the scriptural studies forum in the rapture thread. Sure. Just give me a bit. I have to be in a certain mood to break down a scripture and I still am not there yet. When I do that, I have to have a clear mind (which I don't have right now). I hope you understand. I am however looking forward to it. I love to break down a passage and to see what it has to offer that I may have missed before. |
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Post by teresahrc on Aug 6, 2008 13:55:30 GMT -5
I can guarantee that at the very least there are 500 million muslims who have NOT heard the gospel.
teresa
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