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Post by emily445455 on Apr 4, 2008 13:51:47 GMT -5
If you mean catholic as "universal", then yes, I guess Jesus was the head of the universal Church body...not the RCC as we know it now.
Also, the KJV was not created by a man, he just had it translated into English.
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Post by Cepha on Apr 4, 2008 20:02:48 GMT -5
But The Church is Universal too. It is in all nations, comprised of all ethnicities...just as Jesus commissioned it to be. You cannot separate The Church from History. It is universal. So is Jesus. The Church is exactly like Jesus...universal. Remember, The Catholic Church existed "before" The Holy Bible. It was The Church that created The Holy Bible to the world. And there is no RCC. Roman Catholicism is a "rite" of The Universal Church, not a church unto itself. You used the term incorrectly which basically shows that "as we know it" is wrong too (that is, the "we" in that sentence). But The Bible was translated in English first by The Catholic Church a thousand years before King James ordered it (around 600 AD in England when Catholicism brought The Gospel to the British Isles). Are you saying that the King James Bible existed before King James created it?  Could you show where the first King James Bible appears in history? What year? |
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Danica-Christine.
New Member
"Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us, now, & at the hour of our death."
Posts: 45
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Post by Danica-Christine. on Jul 2, 2008 16:36:02 GMT -5
JESUS IS ROMAN CATHOLIC [RCC]...AND HE'S MINE....ALL MINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
;D ;D ;D
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Post by myredeemerlives on Jul 4, 2008 6:33:42 GMT -5
Just because the Catholic church has existed for 2000 years doesn't make it right. I wouldn't be too proud of all Catholic history if I were you.
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Post by Cepha on Jul 4, 2008 11:02:58 GMT -5
Just because the Catholic church has existed for 2000 years doesn't make it right. I wouldn't be too proud of all Catholic history if I were you. Just because it was instituted "by" Jesus Christ 2,000 years ago means that it makes it right.  I know this "Church" where they abandoned Jesus and denied Him. They were always bickering about who was best or who was the leader. One of them doubted Him. One of it's members ever turned against Him. Know who this Church was? The Apostles. And Jesus preached against anyone taking pride in their religion. So you'd do well to not take pride even in yours. Are you proud of your religion? |
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Post by Tabasco Breath on Nov 24, 2008 23:40:13 GMT -5
How many here knew that Jesus wanted His Church to be Catholic? Yes...it's "in" The Holy Bible. Jesus has not one thing to do with the Catholic Church. Jesus' direct movement died out to......what became the Catholic Church. |
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Post by Cepha on Nov 25, 2008 11:50:38 GMT -5
Jesus has not one thing to do with the Catholic Church. Actually, He had everything to do with it. He started it. ;D Negatory...Jesus handed on His Ministry to Saint Peter in John 21. Peter passed it on (I think Linuse took over the reigns after that, then Evaristus and so on down through the years for a total of about 225 Popes). |
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Post by teresahrc on Nov 26, 2008 15:17:28 GMT -5
Oy!
Jesus 'was' Catholic?
Whatever!
First of all, whatever Jesus 'was', He still is.
You should say "Jesus IS Catholic".
But still it's a ridiculous statement because Catholicism is a religion of faith, and obviously Jesus already believes in Himself and doesn't need reconciled to Himself like us miserable Catholics.
Anyway, Jesus was and still is JEWISH! Sorry to break your hearts and all but He is. And He is a perfect Jew.
Perfect Jews (okay there's only one) don't need to be Catholic! They have no sins that need to be forgiven and no need to repent.
That said, Jesus definitely was the founder of the Catholic Church and is currently the perfecter of the Catholic Church.
teresa
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Post by Tabasco Breath on Nov 26, 2008 20:16:29 GMT -5
Jesus has not one thing to do with the Catholic Church. Actually, He had everything to do with it. He started it. ;D Jesus came to liberate his fellow Jews from all the catechisms of Hierarchy hard rule traditions; God knows he never intended to start another one.
Negatory...Jesus handed on His Ministry to Saint Peter in John 21.
Peter passed it on (I think Linuse took over the reigns after that, then Evaristus and so on down through the years for a total of about 225 Popes).
Mmmmm......that's more tradition they reality. |
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Nov 27, 2008 1:01:10 GMT -5
no its called HISTORY, you might want to study a lil bit!
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Post by Cepha on Nov 30, 2008 13:19:43 GMT -5
Actually, He had everything to do with it. He started it. ;D Jesus came to liberate his fellow Jews from all the catechisms of Hierarchy hard rule traditions; God knows he never intended to start another one. But he told Peter that He (Jesus) would build a Church. Regardless of "intentions", we have what we have and it is what it is. Jesus started a Church. Everything in religion is tradition pretty much. Even the Bible and the belief "in" The Bible is traditional. And we all know what the Apostolic Teaching is on tradition... 2 Thessalonians 2:15So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us. |
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Post by Cepha on Nov 30, 2008 13:20:59 GMT -5
Oy! Jesus 'was' Catholic? Whatever! First of all, whatever Jesus 'was', He still is. You should say "Jesus IS Catholic". But still it's a ridiculous statement because Catholicism is a religion of faith, and obviously Jesus already believes in Himself and doesn't need reconciled to Himself like us miserable Catholics. Anyway, Jesus was and still is JEWISH! Sorry to break your hearts and all but He is. And He is a perfect Jew. Perfect Jews (okay there's only one) don't need to be Catholic! They have no sins that need to be forgiven and no need to repent. That said, Jesus definitely was the founder of the Catholic Church and is currently the perfecter of the Catholic Church. teresa The founder of The Universal (AKA Catholic) Church is a "universal" Saviour for all mankind.  Therefore, Jesus is Catholic (universal). |
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Post by Cepha on Nov 30, 2008 13:22:17 GMT -5
no its called HISTORY, you might want to study a lil bit! Amen to that. Even secularly speaking, if no religious or spiritual emphasis was placed on one's study of Christianity, they would have to acknowledge that the Church that Jesus Christ started is The Catholic Church. That is "historically" undeniable. |
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Post by tabascobreath on Dec 2, 2008 0:35:14 GMT -5
But he told Peter that He (Jesus) would build a Church. Regardless of "intentions", we have what we have and it is what it is. Jesus started a Church. Jesus was part of a ongoing movement. If you want to say that the Christian church was started through Paul, I have no argument there, but Jesus was part of a Jewish tradition, he has his apocalyptic view of it as others did, but that movement died out to the Gentile church. Jesus may be the icon, but he didn't start the Christian church we have today. Yes Paul.....Gentile.....not Jesus. Jesus was Jewish, his Jewish movement died out. He became the icon for a co-opted church. ~be good |
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Post by teresahrc on Dec 2, 2008 14:50:49 GMT -5
Ok, Cepha, this time I'll let you win. ; )
Tabascobreath, you might want to read in the Bible what Jesus said about the Church that HE WOULD BUILD!
teresa
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Post by Cepha on Dec 2, 2008 15:44:34 GMT -5
The Christian Church was started through Peter (John 21). Paul was just one of its greatest marketers. However, I agree with you wholeheartedly that Jesus was definitely a devout Jew who defended His Jewish faith even unto His death. He was not only a traditional Jew, but was a Jewish Priest...literally, a Pharisee Himself. As for the movement dieing out, I see it as the movement evolving, growing, being fulfilled with Christ's birth and ministry. He was what Judaism was always about. However, there were some Jews who rejected Him. Not all, but most. I don't knock Judaism today. Today, the Hasidim are the remnants of The Pharisees that persecuted Christ and the Christians of The First Century. I'd say we are to them what Protestants are to us...an offshoot of Judaism (as Protestants are an offshoot of Universal Christianity aka Catholicism). Ahh, but He did start The Church we have today. Of course, it's grown a bit and evolved with time, but it's as Christ said it would be, a growing organism that would flourish. It's not led by a fishermen or tax collectors or doctors, but now, by what the Apostles were when they died...full time Priests. And I agree (of course), tradition is everything, otherwise, all one gets in religion is new groups sprouting from older groups because they don't want to evolve. Without tradition, religion is nothing. There is no guiding principle. No foundation, no core, no fundamentals. Think about it TB...even The Church that Jesus started wasn't the same as when it first began. He started with a group of men who were "not" Priests, then turned them "into" Priests. Even during His time, The Church evolved and grew, from 12 Apostles to 1200 Disciples...and so on. Really? Actually, Jesus began working on Gentiles Himself. How many Romans did He use as examples of what true faith was? Or how many non-Jews did He use? A lot more than real Jews. Remember when the Samaritan woman came to Him for help? He told her that He came just for the Jews, but her plea convinced Him to help her and Jesus did that and from then on, He helped any non-Jew and not only that, commissioned His Apostles to make Disciples of "all" nations (not just of "all Jewish nations"). He was working with non-Jews while He was still on earth. Paul? Paul was commissioned to the Gentiles why? Because he had Roman Citizenship which meant that not only could he travel freely among the Empire without being persecuted, but if brought to trial had literal Roman "rights" that protected him from unjust persecution (which he used to his advantage). Peter was a smart leader. He knew what he did when he sent Paul out to the Gentiles. It was common sense. Wisdom. Prudence. You too brother. Pax. |
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Post by Cepha on Dec 2, 2008 15:48:10 GMT -5
Ok, Cepha, this time I'll let you win. ; ) Tabascobreath, you might want to read in the Bible what Jesus said about the Church that HE WOULD BUILD! teresa Hay, Jesus "is" literally universal! OK? LOL! Or, "Catholic!"  Think about is...which Church is "full" of Jesus? Catholic Churches. There are numerous statues, images, paintings...it's beautiful. We surround ourselves with Christ and with those who served Him faithfully. |
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Post by Cepha on Dec 2, 2008 15:50:03 GMT -5
Jesus was part of a ongoing movement. If you want to say that the Christian church was started through Paul, I have no argument there, but Jesus was part of a Jewish tradition, he has his apocalyptic view of it as others did, but that movement died out to the Gentile church. Yes Paul.....Gentile.....not Jesus. Jesus was Jewish, his Jewish movement died out. He became the icon for a co-opted church. Really? Actually, Jesus began working on Gentiles Himself. How many Romans did He use as examples of what true faith was? Or how many non-Jews did He use? A lot more than real Jews. Remember when the Samaritan woman came to Him for help? He told her that He came just for the Jews, but her plea convinced Him to help her and Jesus did that and from then on, He helped any non-Jew and not only that, commissioned His Apostles to make Disciples of "all" nations (not just of "all Jewish nations"). He was working with non-Jews while He was still on earth. Paul? Paul was commissioned to the Gentiles why? Because he had Roman Citizenship which meant that not only could he travel freely among the Empire without being persecuted, but if brought to trial had literal Roman "rights" that protected him from unjust persecution (which he used to his advantage). Peter was a smart leader. He knew what he did when he sent Paul out to the Gentiles. It was common sense. Wisdom. Prudence. You too brother. Pax. [/quote] |
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jhardin
Junior Member
"...wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the (c)atholic (spiritual) Church." Ignatius 110 A.D.
Posts: 65
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Post by jhardin on Dec 2, 2008 19:40:42 GMT -5
Hay, Jesus "is" literally universal! OK? LOL! Or, "Catholic!" Think about is...which Church is "full" of Jesus? Catholic Churches. There are numerous statues, images, paintings...it's beautiful. We surround ourselves with Christ and with those who served Him faithfully. There is a huge difference between Jesus being "universal" in a spiritual sense, and the Catholic Church being universal in a physical sense. The Kingdom of God is in Christ... all of it, which makes Him universal by default. But to claim that the Roman Catholic Church comprises that universality is to make a connection that is not necessarily there. Christ said that His Kingdom is "not of this world"... so to try to prove His Kingdom by worldly means is fallacious. (BTW: Hi Cepha ) |
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Post by Cepha on Dec 4, 2008 12:41:03 GMT -5
There is a huge difference between Jesus being "universal" in a spiritual sense, and the Catholic Church being universal in a physical sense. How is a physically "universal" Church "not" spiritually universal? How do you measure one's universalness? The Church is universal in everysense of the word...one group of different physical ethnicities and beings under one unifying spiritual teaching. Both are universal...a universal belief among a universal group of individual persons/groups. But the Catholic Church is The Universal Church. It has always been (records of that name being used for it going back as far as 107-110 A.D.). It was never denominational. There was always "1" universal Church. All other Christian churches that came after that are denominationally based. No one ever said that Jesus' Kingdom is a worldly kingdom. Hi J!  |
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