Cepha, I challenge you!

[teresahrc]

Take up your sword, young lad, let all men see what you are made of!


"By my staff! We are enough! I shall go to see my good friends in Compiegne!"




teresa

[knuckle]

ooooo T is calling the big man out!!!

[Cepha]

Woah!

Looks like someone had a little bit too much Caffeine today!

LOL!

Ok, if that's how you want it...

[knuckle]

Gay dating Bro? since when did we start the ad support?

[knuckle]

Ahh the ads keep changing......

[teresahrc]

"And if I were condemned and brought to the place of judgment and I saw the torch lit and the faggots ready, and the executioner ready to kindle the fire, and if I were within the fire, yet I would say nothing else and I would maintain unto death what I have said in this trial!"

[teresahrc]

Today the gentle Dauphin will have the greatest victory he has won for a long time!

[teresahrc]

25 He asked for water, and she gave him milk;
in a bowl fit for nobles she brought him curdled milk.

[Cepha]

Aug 19, 2008 10:40:49 GMT -5 knuckle said:

Gay dating Bro? since when did we start the ad support?

I can't control the ads.

The board host controls the ads.

I'll send them a note about that.

I didn't even notice that.

The ads are set off by tag words in the text of the messages.

I'm sure that the board host could keep stuff like that out if I request it.

Thanks for pointing it out to me.

I had no idea.

Sorry.

[Cepha]

[teresahrc]

. At that time, the 7 Churches was the whole Church.
And that was it. Only those 7 Churches received this revelation.
No other Churches were included in that list of God/Jesus'

So, if we take the Bible "as" written, it is what it is.
Only those Churches received this revelation.

Proof? They were literally named. They literally existed.
There were no other legitimate Churches but those 7 when this was written. And, again, Paul was writing this book (at least that's what God calls it "in" His instructions to Paul, a book) to The Church's Leaders.

And again, it literally states the geographical locations of these Churches (which are historially located in said areas).



Revelation 1:

12 And I turned to see the voice that spake with me. And having turned I saw seven golden candlesticks;

13 and in the midst of the candlesticks one like unto a son of man, clothed with a garment down to the foot, and girt about at the breasts with a golden girdle.


Here's were it starts to get tricky...Supposedly, 7 golden candlesticks were the source of the voice. Among the candlesticks, he saw Jesus.

What do the candlesticks represent? The Churches?

Jesus is known for saying that one doesn't light a lamp and place it under a cover.

Perhaps, these lights that the candlesticks produce are the light that is Christ as He is The Light/Gospel of John 1 (again, 7 specific Churches historically confirmed to be the first Christian Churches at that time).

Just a couple of verses ago, God literally called this to be placed in a "book" (not in a letter) and to be sent to 7 literal Churches in 7 specific geographical locations that are known to have historically existed.

11 saying, What thou seest, write in a book and send it to the seven churches: unto Ephesus, and unto Smyrna, and unto Pergamum, and unto Thyatira, and unto Sardis, and unto Philadelphia, and unto Laodicea.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_churches_of_Asia

Cepha,
In the words of a very brave (banned) protestant

"you are dead wrong!"

At that time, the 7 Churches was the whole Church.
And that was it. Only those 7 Churches received this revelation.
No other Churches were included in that list of God/Jesus'

falsehood! error!

Aide toy, Dieu te aidera

Help yourself and God will help you!!!

I stand on the shores of the Bosphorous,

Where, risen from a doubtful seat and half attainted stall,
The last knight of Europe takes weapons from the wall,
The last and lingering troubadour to whom the bird has sung,
That once went singing southward when all the world was young.
In that enormous silence, tiny and unafraid,
Comes up along a winding road the noise of the Crusade!


Gird up thy loins Cepha!

[Cepha]

Aug 20, 2008 10:32:11 GMT -5 @teresahrc said:

Cepha,
In the words of a very brave (banned) protestant

"you are dead wrong!"

falsehood! error!

Gird up thy loins Cepha!

Alright..I'll bite.

Loins are girded.

[teresahrc]

Those 7 churches were the whole Church?

Come on Cepha! Who wrote revelation? St. John. And He wrote it near the end of His life. Do you really think that those were the only 7 Churches?

Why does this make me so mad?


Well, you sit here and try to show protestants that the Catholic Church originated from the Apostles.
You talk about the Church of Rome, and the Bishop of Rome, namely Peter, and how he and his sucessors are the Shepherd of the Church,
How can you overlook something so obvious?

And you said Paul wrote the book? What?!

Tell me you know better than that!

I have been to Turkey, and all 7 of those Churches were in present day Turkey. None of them exist now. How dreadful would it be if those 7 Churches were the ONLY churches when Revelation was written, and now NONE of them exist?

teresa

[teresahrc]

Are you able, Cepha, to say

"I was wrong"?

[Cepha]

Aug 20, 2008 11:23:13 GMT -5 @teresahrc said:

Those 7 churches were the whole Church?

Come on Cepha! Who wrote revelation? St. John. And He wrote it near the end of His life. Do you really think that those were the only 7 Churches?

Go back and re-read what I wrote.
I clearly stated that there were other Christian sects,
but they were heretical.

Besides, "what" exactly does The Bible actually say literally?

To how many "Churches" did Jesus tell John to give this revelation to?

Not conjecture...show me factually to whom Jesus told John to give these writings to.

If you can find "more" than the 7 that are mentioned in Revelation, then by all means...produce your evidence.

Why does this make me so mad?

I didn't know it made you mad.

Well, you sit here and try to show protestants that the Catholic Church originated from the Apostles.
You talk about the Church of Rome, and the Bishop of Rome, namely Peter, and how he and his sucessors are the Shepherd of the Church,
How can you overlook something so obvious?

Teresa, you do know that no physical "Church" was built in Rome until we came under Roman protection, right?

The legitimate physical Churches existed only in Asia.

And you said Paul wrote the book? What?!
Tell me you know better than that!

Where did I say that Paul wrote The Book of Revelation?

I have been to Turkey, and all 7 of those Churches were in present day Turkey. None of them exist now. How dreadful would it be if those 7 Churches were the ONLY churches when Revelation was written, and now NONE of them exist?

They all exist now...only now, out of those 7 Churches, there are 1.3 Billion adherents with Churches all over the world. Those physical Churches were the roots for what was to come to Rome physically.

Just as The Upper Room on The Day of Pentecost was the root for how the 7 Churches came to be.

If Vatican City was nuked, would that be the end of The Catholic Church?

Read the text of The Book of Revelation...show me where it states that they were sent anywhere else "but" the 7 Churches mentioned?

And, if there was a Church in Rome at that time, their not receiving The Book of Revelation would mean that they were excluded. But, since there was no physical Church in Rome at the time that Revelation was written, it's impossible for it to be excluded.

Peter was in Rome, but not "Saint Peter's Basilica".

You need to understand that by the time Revelation was written, most Christians were no longer Jewish, but Gentiles. And, because they were being persecuted by The Romans and The Jews, they had to flee Jeruselum. Those who spoke out were martyred (God rest their souls).

This in no way detracts from Peter's work in Rome.
It in no way takes away from The Church's claims.

If we go only by The Bible, it is clear that at the time Revelation was written, the only Churches in existance that were worthy of receiving these books were the 7 mentioned. If any other Churches existed that were worthy, they would've been mentioned (and they weren't).

These were the only legitimate Churches at the time. This doesn't mean that from then until eternity they would be the only legitimate Churches...it just means that at the time of the writing of Revelation, they were the only ones worthy of receiving the Book of Revelation.

There was no physical Church in Rome. There was a "movement", there was preaching and evangelization, but we didn't have Vatican City there.

If you really want to get "literal" about the origin of Christianity, then you have to go back to the Day of Pentecost in the room in Jeruselum.

That is where The Catholic Church was started literally.

For 400 years afterward, she had to bounce around from place to place because of the persecutions. She couldn't settle down anywhere until the persecutions ceased.

Those 7 Churches Christians were run out in the 1923 Treaty of Lausanne.

It wasn't their geographical locations that made them the true Churches (the 7), it was their loyalty and their bodies and their structure. These were the Churches chosen by Jesus Christ to have Revelation revealed to (even if they weren't perfect).

Question:

Where was Peter when John wrote this book?

He was buried in the ground...dead.

Who was in charge?

Linus.

What was the address of The Church that Pope Linus was in charge of?

Do you believe that there was a physical Church in Rome with an altar and candles and a big sign that said "Saint Peter's"?

The Church was in Rome as the human Church, but there was no phsyical institution there. That wouldn't happen again until "after" the persecutions ceased.

Of course however, you can prove me wrong by providing some evidence that there was a phsyical Catholic Church in Rome at the time that John was written (which would then exclude if from Revelations and prove that it was not worthy of the reception of these works by The Apostle John).

;D

[teresahrc]

" 3Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

Greetings and doxology
4John,
To the seven churches in the province of Asia:

Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, 5and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. " Rev. 1


Cepha, "To the seven churches in the province of Asia"

does not equal "To all the churches that have a physical building"!


Your arguement is so lame. There is nothing in Rev. that even says that THOSE 7 Churches had a physical building!

So, I'm not going to bother with

providing some evidence that there was a phsyical Catholic Church in Rome at the time that John was written (

Can't you just accept that you were wrong. They WERE NOT the only churches at the time, and Rev. didn't claim they were. They were the Churches in Asia Minor and God wanted to address them for a particular reason.

There were no other legitimate Churches but those 7 when this was written. And, again, Paul was writing this book (at least that's what God calls it "in" His instructions to Paul, a book) to The Church's Leaders.

So, maybe that was just a typo when you said that Paul wrote this book? Or were you talking about another book?


There was a physical church in Rome, in Jerusalem and in many other places. People are physical. They didn't always meet in a "church" as we know it today (esp. because of the enormous persecution they were going through!)

"Churches" often met in believers' homes.

Can't you just admit that you were wrong?

teresa

[teresahrc]

I'll give you 24 hours to come up with something.

Take heart and come on! I will not fly away.

I fear nothing, except treason!

teresa

[Cepha]

Aug 20, 2008 13:38:30 GMT -5 @teresahrc said:

" 3Blessed is the one who reads the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.

Greetings and doxology
4John,
To the seven churches in the province of Asia:

Grace and peace to you from him who is, and who was, and who is to come, and from the seven spirits before his throne, 5and from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, the firstborn from the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth. " Rev. 1


Cepha, "To the seven churches in the province of Asia"

does not equal "To all the churches that have a physical building"!

Your arguement is so lame. There is nothing in Rev. that even says that THOSE 7 Churches had a physical building!

Plain and simple, instead of insulting my argument, simply prove to me that the Book of Revelation was given to any other Church besides those listed by Jesus?

Also, stop using the NIV bible...it is produced by the same company that produces The Satanic Bible.

So, I'm not going to bother with

providing some evidence that there was a phsyical Catholic Church in Rome at the time that John was written

Why not?

If you're going to insist that there were authorized Churches outside of The 7 listed to receive the Book of Revelation, then you have to prove this.

You can't make accusations then not prove them.

I used The Bible to prove that Jesus only found these 7 Churches worthy of receiving these revelations.

Where is your proof that they aren't?

Can't you just accept that you were wrong.

Wrong on what?

They WERE NOT the only churches at the time, and Rev. didn't claim they were. They were the Churches in Asia Minor and God wanted to address them for a particular reason.

I never said they were he only Churches at the time, I said the were the only "true" Churches at the time that were worthy of receiving these revelations.

I clearly stated that there were churches, but they were heretical. Jesus only found these Churches worthy of receiving this revelation.

Do you deny this?

So, maybe that was just a typo when you said that Paul wrote this book? Or were you talking about another book?

If you're going to say that I said Paul wrote the Book of Revelation, you should've had the actual quote.

You still insinuate that I made a typo...where is the actual quote?

Show me where I said it.

I can't say I didn't say it because I may have written it and made a mistake, but I want to see where I wrote it after you ridiculed me for saying it.

There was a physical church in Rome, in Jerusalem and in many other places.

Ok, show me where.

Cite a source.

If you're going to say something and claim it to be factual,
then you should be able to prove it.

People are physical. They didn't always meet in a "church" as we know it today (esp. because of the enormous persecution they were going through!)

No, no, no...no playing with words here. A "physical" Church as I clearly stated is a building, a place of worship (like the 7 Churches were).

"Churches" often met in believers' homes.

Can't you just admit that you were wrong?

teresa

Tell you what, answer the questions I asked you.

It's that simple.

If you can't, then you must retract your accusation that I'm wrong.

You have to prove me wrong. You are the accuser. The burden of proof is on the prosecution (the accuser). If you're going to accuse someone of something, you have to be prepared to offer up evidence, not say "I'm not going to bother with

providing some evidence...

" when asked for proof.

Come on now!

You jumped in the ring with the big dog now!

You have to come much stronger than that!



Here is a list of the questions you didn't answer:

1. Besides, "what" exactly does The Bible actually say literally?

2. To how many "Churches" did Jesus tell John to give this revelation to?

3. Teresa, you do know that no physical "Church" was built in Rome until we came under Roman protection, right?

4. Where did I say that Paul wrote The Book of Revelation?

5. What was the address of The Church that Pope Linus was in charge of?

6. Do you believe that there was a physical Church in Rome with an altar and candles and a big sign that said "Saint Peter's"?

[Cepha]

Now, if you believe that when The Bible says 7 different Churches it means "groups" of Christians, then you are saying that there were "denominations".

If they were talking about only "one" Christian Church as the literal believers, then Jesus would be excluding all other Christian believers by default from this revelation and you'd be tieing this revelation to only those groups of Christians (instead of to the actual Churches that you admitted were physically there).

Let's look at the word "church" and see what it means and decide in which manner it was used in The Book of Revelations Chapter 1 (in context):

church
–noun
1. a building for public Christian worship.
2. public worship of God or a religious service in such a building: to attend church regularly.
3. (sometimes initial capital letter) the whole body of Christian believers; Christendom.
4. (sometimes initial capital letter) any division of this body professing the same creed and acknowledging the same ecclesiastical authority; a Christian denomination: the Methodist Church.
5. that part of the whole Christian body, or of a particular denomination, belonging to the same city, country, nation, etc.
6. a body of Christians worshipping in a particular building or constituting one congregation: She is a member of this church.
7. ecclesiastical organization, power, and affairs, as distinguished from the state: separation of church and state; The missionary went wherever the church sent him.
8. the clergy and religious officials of a Christian denomination.
9. the Christian faith: a return of intellectuals to the church.
10. (initial capital letter) the Christian Church before the Reformation.
11. (initial capital letter) the Roman Catholic Church.
12. the clerical profession or calling: After much study and contemplation, he was prepared to enter the church.
13. a place of public worship of a non-Christian religion.
14. any non-Christian religious society, organization, or congregation: the Jewish church.
–verb (used with object)
15. to conduct or bring to church, esp. for special services.
16. South Midland and Southern U.S. to subject to church discipline.
17. to perform a church service of thanksgiving for (a woman after childbirth).

Now, in your opinion, how was the word "churches" (plural meaning a collection of things...nouns) used?

[Cepha]

By the way...voting for yourself?

LOL!