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Post by watchman on Feb 12, 2009 0:36:58 GMT -5
#2 That He lived a sinless life
2nd Cor 5:21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Hebrews 2:17-18
17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
Hebrews 4:14-16
14Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
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Post by watchman on Feb 12, 2009 0:44:59 GMT -5
#3 That He died for our sins.
Hebrews 9:28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
1st Peter2:21-24
21For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
22Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
23Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
24Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
1st John 2:2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
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Post by Cepha on Feb 12, 2009 0:49:03 GMT -5
I gave the outline of what I thought the doctrine of Salvation was and you agreed that the bible taught all of that. So I guess I win, my understanding of the doctrine of salvation is in scripture. No, you have to provide the "doctrine" that you claim is in The Bible. Then you will have proven your point. So, do it now... Chapter and Verses. |
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Post by Cepha on Feb 12, 2009 0:51:29 GMT -5
#3 That He died for our sins. Hebrews 9:28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation. 1st Peter2:21-24 21For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously: 24Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed. 1st John 2:2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world. You have just posted teachings...not a "doctrine". I suggest you re-read the definition of the word "doctrine" as defined in the first few posts of this thread. This is the last time that I will tell you that a doctrine is a collection of organized beliefs, not a "belief" here and a belief there. In order for you to prove that the doctrine of salvation is in The Bible, you must literally post the collection of the beliefs along with the explanation as to why that particular combination of beliefs equal the belief you claim. |
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Post by watchman on Feb 12, 2009 0:53:04 GMT -5
#4 That God rose Him on the 3rd day
Romans 6:4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Romans 7:4Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Romans 10:9-10
9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
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Post by watchman on Feb 12, 2009 0:55:22 GMT -5
Debate on whether or not The Doctrine of Salvation is taught in The Bible.
First, we must define what the word "doctrine" means:doc·trine n.
1. A principle or body of principles presented for acceptance or belief, as by a religious, political, scientific, or philosophic group; dogma.
2. A rule or principle of law, especially when established by precedent.
3. A statement of official government policy, especially in foreign affairs and military strategy.
4. Archaic Something taught; a teaching. dictionary.reference.com/browse/doctrine Look at the 4th definition, I am going with that one, and can and will prove all 8 points of my ''BELIEF'' (check out definition 1 as well) using scripture. |
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Post by Cepha on Feb 12, 2009 0:55:25 GMT -5
Some one who accepts Jesus as their Savior and then lives for Him,serving Him as their Lord, for the rest of their live will be saved and after death, and spend eternity with Christ. This is what I understand to be the doctrine of salvation, and I can prove this scripturally, and will so if you want me to. Outside of this I do not know what you are asking for, seeing as you have yet to tell me what you understand the doctrine of salvation to be. I guess then you don't understand plain English. I posted the definition of the word doctrine. I explained it to you in layman's terms. I even gave you several opportunities to prove your point. But you insist on just posting scriptures that can't be proven to be related without an explanation of those scriptures and it has to be done by The Bible...not by you. You keep saying "I believe, I believe...", but what you believe is irrelevant. An atheist could prove something a simple as a doctrine. It's a collection of teachings formally organized. That's all you have to prove. Not your faith, not what you believe, just the scripture that spells out all the teachings of salvation in one teaching...that is what a doctrine is. I think it's time we take this to a vote by the board. |
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Post by Cepha on Feb 12, 2009 0:56:24 GMT -5
Some one who accepts Jesus as their Savior and then lives for Him,serving Him as their Lord, for the rest of their live will be saved and after death, and spend eternity with Christ. This is what I understand to be the doctrine of salvation, and I can prove this scripturally, and will so if you want me to. Outside of this I do not know what you are asking for, seeing as you have yet to tell me what you understand the doctrine of salvation to be. I guess then you don't understand plain English. I posted the definition of the word doctrine. I explained it to you in layman's terms. I even gave you several opportunities to prove your point. But you insist on just posting scriptures that can't be proven to be related without an explanation of those scriptures and it has to be done by The Bible...not by you. You keep saying "I believe, I believe...", but what you believe is irrelevant. An atheist could prove something a simple as a doctrine. It's a collection of teachings formally organized. That's all you have to prove. Not your faith, not what you believe, just the scripture that spells out all the teachings of salvation in one teaching...that is what a doctrine is. I think it's time we take this to a vote by the board. I'll give you one more chance to show me where in The Bible the Doctrine of Salvation is taught. If you don't do it, then I will lock the thread and hold it to a vote as I cannot moderate this debate. |
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Post by Cepha on Feb 12, 2009 0:59:36 GMT -5
Debate on whether or not The Doctrine of Salvation is taught in The Bible.
First, we must define what the word "doctrine" means:doc·trine n.
1. A principle or body of principles presented for acceptance or belief, as by a religious, political, scientific, or philosophic group; dogma.
2. A rule or principle of law, especially when established by precedent.
3. A statement of official government policy, especially in foreign affairs and military strategy.
4. Archaic Something taught; a teaching. dictionary.reference.com/browse/doctrine Look at the 4th definition, I am going with that one, and can and will prove all point using scripture. I knew you'd choose that one. Now, read it's definition: It's an "archaic" definition. Know what that means? That that's what it mean in ancient times. Today, that definition has been broadened. And note something else: it says "teaching" singular. That means that even by your definition where you try to use several scriptures that are unrelated, you'd have to eliminate the others out of that list you have. You're free to choose just "one" verse (again) to sum up alll the teachings of what Salvation is. But, if you do that in order to adhere to the archaic definition of the word, you automatically discount the rest of your "beliefs" because there can only be one teaching. So...how do you want to do this? |
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Post by Cepha on Feb 12, 2009 1:03:14 GMT -5
Now, definition 1 and 4 are different.
1 is the current definition of the word meaning a collection of beliefs while 4 means only one teaching.
You cannot use both.
You have to choose one.
It will be impossible for you to use both.
They mean different things.
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Post by watchman on Feb 12, 2009 1:03:28 GMT -5
#5 You must acknowledge your sinfulness.
Romans 3: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;
Galatians 3:22-24
22But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
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Post by watchman on Feb 12, 2009 1:05:18 GMT -5
Now, definition 1 and 4 are different. 1 is the current definition of the word meaning a collection of beliefs while 4 means only one teaching. You cannot use both. You have to choose one. It will be impossible for you to use both. They mean different things. O.K I will choose the first definition if you prefer a collect of believe 8 points that together make a doctrine of which I am currently proving using only scripture |
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Post by watchman on Feb 12, 2009 1:07:21 GMT -5
#6 You must repent of your sins.
Luke 24:47And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
Acts 2:38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
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Post by Cepha on Feb 12, 2009 1:07:19 GMT -5
Now, definition 1 and 4 are different. 1 is the current definition of the word meaning a collection of beliefs while 4 means only one teaching. You cannot use both. You have to choose one. It will be impossible for you to use both. They mean different things. O.K I will choose the first definition if you prefer a collect of believe 8 points that together make a doctrine of which I am currently proving using only scripture Ok then. Show me the one scripture that ecompasses all those points you believe are the Doctrine of Salvation. |
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Post by watchman on Feb 12, 2009 1:09:37 GMT -5
#7 You must remiss from your sins.
Romans 6:1-2
1What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?
2God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?
Romans 6:15-16
15What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.
16Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
1st John 1:6If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1st John 2:4He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
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Post by Cepha on Feb 12, 2009 1:10:37 GMT -5
I repeat...
Show me the one scripture that ecompasses all those points you believe are the Doctrine of Salvation.
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Post by watchman on Feb 12, 2009 1:13:22 GMT -5
I repeat... Show me the one scripture that ecompasses all those points you believe are the Doctrine of Salvation. the challenge was never to use one verse it was to use the Bible. Hence you opening statement. My opening statement: The Doctrine of Salvation is not taught in The Bible. |
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Post by watchman on Feb 12, 2009 1:17:06 GMT -5
#8 You must endure keeping the faith until the end. (of your life or until Jesus returns)
Matthew 24:12-13
12And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.
13But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Mark 13:13And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Colosians 1:21-23
21And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
Revelation 2:26And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
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Post by watchman on Feb 12, 2009 1:19:35 GMT -5
I have successfully proving all 8 points of belief which incorporate the doctrine of salvation using only scripture. Contrary to your claim I gave no explanation at all just the point of belief with the scriptures that proved it. And I did so off the top of my head. I am sure there are many, many more and even better scripture that could have been used.  |
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Post by watchman on Feb 12, 2009 1:21:49 GMT -5
O.K I will choose the first definition if you prefer a collect of believe 8 points that together make a doctrine of which I am currently proving using only scripture Ok then. Show me the one scripture that ecompasses all those points you believe are the Doctrine of Salvation. You didn't originally claim that the doctrine of salvation was not taught in on verse or one passage, your opening statement was that it is not taught in the Bible which I have just disproven. ;D   |
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