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Post by watchman on Feb 12, 2009 18:09:28 GMT -5
fffffff: You are confused. Your salvation isn't dependent upon the teachings of the Bible.  Before you stone me, let me explain. I do believe that the Bible is the word of God. But the Bible doesn't save us. It shows us the way to salvation. But someone can be saved without ever seeing or touching a Bible. We are not saved by the Bible, we are saved by a PERSON. Namely, the Lord Jesus Christ. Of course the Bible is so important, and it helps us get to know Jesus. But it is not the Bible that saves us. If you don't have a Bible, you will survive. In fact, millions of Christians around the world either don't have a Bible, or couldn't read it if they did. (hopefully they are able to hear scripture in Church). But if you don't have JESUS, then, you are to be pitied. peace teresa Of course the Bible does not save us by as you said it does tell us how we can be saved and how to stay saved. Read the debate Teresa and tell me that I did not show that the Bible contains the doctrine of Salvation. If I did show that it does, give me your vote, so far I am up 3-0 |
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Post by watchman on Feb 12, 2009 18:21:58 GMT -5
i think watchman did a good job in defending his belief. How can the doctrine of salvation not be in the Holy Bible? Ok, show me where The DOS is then? Why does CC need to do this I already have. |
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Post by watchman on Feb 12, 2009 18:23:04 GMT -5
Done I did it last night. |
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Post by Cepha on Feb 12, 2009 18:35:56 GMT -5
Done I did it last night. Show me the Chapter and verses where it teaches The DOS? You still haven't. You've combined a lot of different verses, but you haven't provided a verse that combines all those verses together. A "doctrine". You can say it all you want, but it won't make it so.  But of course, you could prove me wrong by simply posting the Scripture that proves that The DOS is "in" The Bible. (instead of saying "I did") |
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Post by watchman on Feb 12, 2009 18:41:14 GMT -5
Done I did it last night. Show me the Chapter and verses where it teaches The DOS? You still haven't. You've combined a lot of different verses, but you haven't provided a verse that combines all those verses together. A "doctrine". You can say it all you want, but it won't make it so. But of course, you could prove me wrong by simply posting the Scripture that proves that The DOS is "in" The Bible. (instead of saying "I did") The debate is over the forum has decided i won, if you want to see were the Bible teaches the doctrine of Salvation just read over the debate thread. Denying it is there only makes you look ridiculous. |
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Post by Cepha on Feb 12, 2009 18:48:15 GMT -5
Read the debate Teresa and tell me that I did not show that the Bible contains the doctrine of Salvation. If I did show that it does, give me your vote, so far I am up 3-0 "Contains" The Doctrine of Salvation? Where is it? Where? Show it to me. Show me where it literally says how one gets saved in a single teaching with all the requirements of Salvation being met. The teachings are there, but not the doctrine. |
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Post by Cepha on Feb 12, 2009 18:49:55 GMT -5
Ok, show me where The DOS is then? Why does CC need to do this I already have. You never did...you spend more time and text saying you did, but not once did you even quote yourself. Fact is, you never showed the doctrine according to the definition of the word "doctrine" that you agreed to abide by. |
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Post by Cepha on Feb 12, 2009 18:55:31 GMT -5
Show me the Chapter and verses where it teaches The DOS? You still haven't. You've combined a lot of different verses, but you haven't provided a verse that combines all those verses together. A "doctrine". You can say it all you want, but it won't make it so. But of course, you could prove me wrong by simply posting the Scripture that proves that The DOS is "in" The Bible. (instead of saying "I did") The debate is over the forum has decided i won, if you want to see were the Bible teaches the doctrine of Salvation just read over the debate thread. Denying it is there only makes you look ridiculous. What they said is that you proved what you believe, but not one stepped up and provided the DOS in scripture. Not one. Your personal beliefs were never in question. What was was the DOS being "in" The Bible. And not one of them responded to me when I asked them to show me where it was. Why? Because The DOS doesn't exist in The Holy Bible. And that's why you couldn't point to it. You couldn't find one body of teachings that contained all the principles of Salvation. Not one. |
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Post by watchman on Feb 12, 2009 18:57:29 GMT -5
This is your definition of doctrine.
1 is the current definition of the word meaning a collection of beliefs while 4 means only one teaching.
Anyone who reads that thread can see i had 8 points to my belief which contained in is the doctrine of Salvation. I used scripture to prove all 8 point. You loose i win, now you are just embarrassing yourself
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Post by Cepha on Feb 12, 2009 19:21:42 GMT -5
This is your definition of doctrine. 1 is the current definition of the word meaning a collection of beliefs while 4 means only one teaching. And, you agreed to it. Here is the post where you agreed to the definition from "Dictionary.com", so you cannot say that it is "my" definition. Once you agreed to it, it became your definition as well, so now you cannot backstep from that. fideidefensor.proboards80.com/index.cgi?board=debatingboard&action=display&thread=488&page=2#8273That was never the question...the question was "where in the Bible is the doctrine", not the separate teachings. You fully accepted and agreed to the definition we were going by, so it was incumbunt upon you to provide the proof according to the definition you agreed upon (which you didn't). The 8 points weren't in doubt. You were off topic. What you were supposed to prove was where in The Bible was the DOS. The collection of teachings all together and in completeness with the doctrine being explained. That is what you were supposed to post. Anybody can pick a verse and say I believe in this verse and then post the verse. If you're going to debate, you had to answer the question, not provide answers to questions that weren't even being asked. You'll win when you post the scripture that proves that at one point in The Holy Bible, someone taught all the principles of the Doctrine of Salvation in "one" teaching (making the principles the collective body of the teachings, forming them into one doctrine as defined for the debate). For example, I can say that the 10 Commandments are listed one after the other and are are in the Bible. I can go to a particular section where it is and prove it. But, I cannot just pick one of those commandments as proof of the entire 10. I have to post all 10. That's what you have yet to do...you have yet to show me one verse where all of your "points" are formally organized into one "doctrine" (not scattered throughout the Bible leaving us to do the accumulating of the scriptures). The Bible has to have had accumulated, organized and presented the Doctrine, not you. |
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Post by Cepha on Feb 12, 2009 19:27:18 GMT -5
Cepha you cannot debate and challenge everyone who votes to a debate of their own. I won plain and simple I gave 8 points to the doctrine of salvation, you said to use scripture to prove them and I did, simple as that. The Bible does contain the doctrine of salvation. Take your defeat gracefully. Not only can I do it, but so can you. If someone is going to say something, they have to prove it (notice, no one has yet). The 8 scattered points were not organized into a doctrine, but were separated teachings. Notice how you yourself just wrote the 8 points "to" doctrine, not the "Doctrine" itself. Because you know you cannot say that. You know you cannot say that "This is The Doctrine of Salvation". Only that they are "points". Points alone a doctrine do not make. And I never said to use scripture to prove your points. I challenge you now to literally (not figuratively) quote me...otherwise, you are slandering me and are a lier. Prove your allegation...post your proof that I told you to use scripture to prove your points (your points were never in question here). |
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Post by watchman on Feb 12, 2009 21:36:33 GMT -5
Sorry to burst your bubble, but I already won ;D You really should just give it up maybe there is another topic you would like to discuss. |
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Post by Cepha on Feb 12, 2009 21:51:58 GMT -5
Sorry to burst your bubble, but I already won ;D You really should just give it up maybe there is another topic you would like to discuss. Really? You actually posted The DOS? Ok, show it to me and I'll concede. Show me the link... |
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Post by watchman on Feb 12, 2009 22:45:09 GMT -5
Sorry to burst your bubble, but I already won ;D You really should just give it up maybe there is another topic you would like to discuss. Really? You actually posted The DOS? Ok, show it to me and I'll concede. Show me the link... You know where it is, if you would concede you would have already. I did what you asked me to do, I prove the doctrine of salvation was taught in scripture, you put the debate up for a vote , and I won 3-0 there is nothing for you to concede, It is over I won. Move on |
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Post by Cepha on Feb 12, 2009 22:59:35 GMT -5
Really? You actually posted The DOS? Ok, show it to me and I'll concede. Show me the link... You know where it is, if you would concede you would have already. I did what you asked me to do, I prove the doctrine of salvation was taught in scripture, you put the debate up for a vote , and I won 3-0 there is nothing for you to concede, It is over I won. Move on You think that's how you win? In order for you to prove your point, they had to literally show what it was that you were trying to say. And show me which one of them said that you posted The DOS? I saw none of them do it, and when I asked them to show me where you posted it, they didn't. And neither do you now. Amazing...you spend more time talking about posting it, then just showing me where it is. Your "proof" is as real as the DOS in The Bible...non-existant, unable to be cited, unable to be quoted. You didn't post it here (according to the standards that you agreed to). Hey, I can to this for months...trust me, you will give up first. We can ping pong this all year long...you can claim anything you want to, but without evidence, there's no proof. That's why we had a debate...you had to follow the debate rules (not create your own). You had to stick to the topic, not try to divert to your own. The topic was never to prove that the teachings existed, but that the doctrine existed as defined. And you never posted it. If you did, you would post it now. You'd name a book. When I prove my points, I use scripture, not personal statements. Not one chapter you quoted from contained any DOS. And it's here for all to see. Well, let's see if anybody finally answers me. So far, no one has. Not one person. Not in the debate, not in this thread. Not one person has posted a scripture that contains the entire DOS as you stated that you believe it. Funny part is that people who didn't even read the thread automatically voted for you! Did you notice that? Maybe that's why they didn't answer me back when I pressed them for proof...they didn't know what it was they were voting about...they just voted blindly and when they realized what they voted on, they dissappeared without responding to my request for proof. There's kind of a theme there.  |
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Post by watchman on Feb 12, 2009 23:02:11 GMT -5
The doctrine of salvation as agreed upon by cepha.
#1 You must acknowledge that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
#2 That He lived a sinless life
#3 That He died for our sins.
#4 That God rose Him on the 3rd day
#5 You must acknowledge your sinfulness.
#6 You must repent of your sins.
#7 You must remiss from your sins.
#8 You must endure keeping the faith until the end. (of your life or until Jesus returns)
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Post by watchman on Feb 12, 2009 23:02:49 GMT -5
#1 You must acknowledge that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
John 9:35-38
35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?
36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?
37 And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee.
38 And he said, Lord, I believe. And he worshipped him.
Acts8:36-38
36And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
Acts 16:30-31
30And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
1st John 2:23Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also.
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Post by watchman on Feb 12, 2009 23:03:21 GMT -5
#2 That He lived a sinless life
2nd Cor 5:21For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.
Hebrews 2:17-18
17Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people.
18For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted.
Hebrews 4:14-16
14Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession.
15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.
16Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
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Post by watchman on Feb 12, 2009 23:03:47 GMT -5
#3 That He died for our sins.
Hebrews 9:28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.
1st Peter2:21-24
21For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
22Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
23Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
24Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
1st John 2:2And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
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Post by watchman on Feb 12, 2009 23:04:19 GMT -5
#4 That God rose Him on the 3rd day
Romans 6:4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
Romans 7:4Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
Romans 10:9-10
9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
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