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Post by Cepha on Mar 26, 2008 0:07:44 GMT -5
Mary, the opposite of Eve.
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Eve brings death to mankind.
Mary brings The Life to mankind (Jesus Who is The Life).
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Eve was made "from" man.
Flesh of man's flesh, bone of man's bone.
Jesus was made "from" Mary.
Jesus was flesh of Mary's flesh and bone of Mary's bone.
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Eve hid from God as a result of her disobedience.
Mary magnified God as a result of her obedience.
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What Eve has wrought,
Mary has undone.
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She is the woman mentioned in Genesis 3 who brought salvation to man through her womb (the woman who would wail in pain in Revelations 12).
But let no man disrespect Eve for she too is our mother. May God bless her and us, her children.
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jacee
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Post by jacee on Mar 26, 2008 13:48:22 GMT -5
What Eve has wrought,
Mary has undone.
I differ Cephas:
Who is this Who comes from Edom (Adam), with crimsonstained garments from Bozrah (in Edom)? This One Who is glorious in His apparel, striding triumphantly in the greatness of His might? It is I, (the One) Who speaks in righteousness (proclaiming vindication), mighty to save!
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Why is Your apparel splashed with red, and Your garments like the one who treads in the winepress?
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I have trodden the winepress alone, and of the peoples there was no one with Me. I trod them in My anger and trampled them in My wrath; and their lifeblood is sprinkled upon My garments, and I stained all My raiment.
That was Isaiah 63: 1-3
Mary provided an egg. That is the womans part of fertilization. The DNA comes from the Father....all that was of God within Jesus....was in Him. The first begotten Son....Spiritual reproduction....how? How are we born again?
Is a mystery.
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Post by Cepha on Mar 26, 2008 15:10:27 GMT -5
 You don't believe that Mary's work in bringing forth Christ brought life to man (notice, I said her "work", not her personally)? Excellent point Jacee! However, no man gave Jesus His blood. Only Mary. All human beings are composites of two separate humans made into one (except for Adam and Eve who were "created"...the rest of men were "pro-created" by humans). Since no man gave Jesus His blood, there was not composite blood (where two bloodlines combine to form a new bloodline). Therefore, His blood was all Mary's blood. Mary's blood was a composite of her parents, but what she passed on to Jesus was not of hers and of anothers...Jesus' blood is pure Marian blood. Pure. What you're saying is even though there is no scriptural evidence nor any traditional Christian belief that God ever provided any matter for Jesus' creation, God provided some matter for Jesus' creation? Remember, even Adam had to be created from some "matter" (which was the earth...a belief that floated around by non-Christian groups is that when God picked up the soil, He held the 5 elements in his hands: water=blood, saliva, fluids, soil=matter, flesh, bone, wind=air we breathe, fire=the electrical charge in our bodies, along with the warmth we produce and what is knowns as "Ki" or the spiritual element of "being"...but that's another thread!  ). How did you come to this conclusion that God provided the DNA (the physical matter to produce Christ)? Scripture tells us that Jesus is both God and Man, both deity and human. It doesn't say that He is 100% human alone or God alone. So, would Jesus' man 1/2 be 1/4 deity and 1/4 human and His deity half be 100% deity? He is 100% all Mary and 100% all God. 1/2 and 1/2. Neither overuling the other 1/2 in Christ. Again, there is no evidence that any man contributed to his genetic make up. Every human being is a new creation separate and apart from the parents that procreated them. Being both of the parents, but neither 100%. Only Jesus is both 100% of both His parents...100% Mary (physically) and 100% God (in essence). And out of that egg, the "matter" that formed Christ (blood, flesh and bone). Plus, you just said what Adam did for Eve...Adam provided the "matter" from which Eve was brougth forth right? In the case of His Son, God reversed the role redeeming the woman. It's just like when Jesus gave Peter 3 chances to redeem himself in John 21 when He asked him "Peter, do you love me?" Amen. I could never explain it.
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jacee
Junior Member
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Post by jacee on Mar 26, 2008 17:38:51 GMT -5
Will return on this one. You took my answer when you said Adams blood came from his creation from earth. My thought was that God supplied blood. Gotta do some thinking. lol
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Post by kingjamesbond on Mar 27, 2008 7:16:40 GMT -5
Hello everybody, Mary came from Adam and Eve. That is her blood line. Jesus was God in flesh. He did have a line of physical ancestors (flesh). The difference has much more to do with the natures of the creature and the Creator. Although Jesus came to us in flesh.....He actually always existed and is not actually a creation. Mary on the other hand is created, a creature, such as we are. 21God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.The difference is that God has no sin nature even while in human flesh. The difference has to do more with the nature rather than eggs, blood, flesh, bones, etc. God by nature is perfect. Creatures by nature are sinners. Take care KJB |
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Post by Cepha on Mar 27, 2008 9:24:06 GMT -5
True. We all did. Including Jesus.
As is ours.
Do you believe in the "fully God and fully" man concept of Christianity? That Jesus was both God and Man at the same time? Neither one being any less than it's full manifestation?
Literally, of David through Mary's bloodline (she was a daughter of David).
Excellent point. I never thought about that. Jesus was the only human besides Adam to "not" be procreated. He was created like Eve was...out of another human being. (This is why I love to discuss things with persons of other faiths...they bring to light different views that lead to revelations that might never have come from just talking to people one agrees with on everything.)
I would offer that Mary was "pro-created" not "created" (she came to be by the coupling of her parents). Jesus was "created" of Mary's flesh and bone (the way Eve was "created" of Adam's flesh and bone).
Nature...interesting. Do you see the "nature" of the reverse creation of Jesus/Adam when compared to woman coming from man and a man coming from a woman?
Adam means "of the earth". Eve means "of man".
One of Jesus' titles is "the Son of Man".
Jesus (as Man) was created of the flesh and bone of Mary, right? Doesn't that make Him a "creature"?
God didn't make Adam and Eve sinners and they weren't sinners by nature. God made them without sin. They introduced sin into the "nature" of mankind.
Great points KJB. My time away for the next week is going to be spent bent on your suggestions. ;D
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Post by Cepha on Mar 27, 2008 9:24:57 GMT -5
Will return on this one. You took my answer when you said Adams blood came from his creation from earth. My thought was that God supplied blood. Gotta do some thinking. lol I know what you mean...I have a feeling the cob webs are going to be dusted off of my brain too! ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by kingjamesbond on Mar 27, 2008 19:27:20 GMT -5
Cephas,
Yes.
That is why when Jesus was cut....He bled.
It was real blood just like in other human beings.
It pumped through His heart just like it does in other human beings.
It was the same sort of blood that flows through humans like yourself, myself, Jacee, Paul, and Mary.
Jesus was fully God and fully man.
There was only one difference in the fully man part.
He was not a sinner. He never sinned. He was not a fallen man nor a fallen God.
He was tempted but that only means He was subjected to the same things people are. It does not mean He in Himself or His nature was tempted to sin. He was and is perfect.
He had human blood, human flesh, human eyes, human ears, a human tongue, human kidneys.....etc etc, and in that regard He was fully human.
There was one thing about Him that was different than all other humans beings.
He had no sin nature. None at all!
The fall of mankind that took place through Adam and had an absolute effect on all other creatures such as you, myself, Jacee, Paul, and Mary......had no effect on Him whatsoever.
That was the difference. His nature is who He is.
The fall of man did not phase Him in the least. God has not fallen. His creatures have.
It was not in His nature to sin.
That is because He is/was God and no one else is.
Take care,
KJB
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Post by Cepha on Mar 27, 2008 21:01:21 GMT -5
But His blood was unique in the world...it was the only blood that had no DNA of a human father contributed to it. It was pure Marian blood. The very blood Jesus bled was Mary's blood. Think about it, if you ran a DNA test on Jesus' blood, they couldn't possibly tell us who the Father was. He had no biological father. Isn't that awesome? Like mother, like Son! (Oh, oh...I think I just started the foundation for another thread! ;D). Just goes to show that we are "not" the sum of our parts, but it is our spirit that is us. I like what Jesus said... "It's not what goes into a man that makes him unclean, but what comes from within that man that makes him unlcean."Course not...He is God. Pax.
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Post by kingjamesbond on Mar 28, 2008 7:06:35 GMT -5
Cephas,
If they did a DNA test on His blood it would be the same blood that you and I have. It might be a different type.....but human blood is still human blood.
I think children can have different types of blood than what their mother had.......but that is neither here nor there.
Jesus did not shed Mary's blood.
Jesus shed His own blood.
His blood is His blood and belongs to Him just like my blood belongs to me and yours to you.
If you were to murder me by slitting my throat......would any court charge you with the murder of my parents also?
His blood is His blood.
That is irrelevant to "Mary brings The Life to mankind (Jesus Who is The Life)".
DNA and extreme tests on His blood might show traces all the way to Adam and Eve.
But what does that have to do with anything?
Eve, the one you say brought death, also brought life to Mary if we weave all the way back.
So, the same Eve you claim brought death is the same Eve that brought life (Jesus).
That means if there would have been no Eve, there would have been no Mary.
But what does all of that have to do with anything? Its like chasing circles.
The difference was not in Mary or her blood.
The entire difference was in the nature of Jesus Christ.
That is why His blood was acceptable.
I posted;
"Jesus was fully God and fully man. There was only one difference in the fully man part. He was not a sinner. He never sinned. He was not a fallen man nor a fallen God."
You replied;
Let me see if I am following along correctly.
With that last claim, are you insinuating that Mary was a sinless human being?
Would you call Mary fully woman, and fully God?
Do you suppose that if Mary was crucified for the sins of men......that her blood and her work on the cross would have been acceptable to the Father?
The text on cleanliness......would that also apply to women or not?
Take care,
KJB
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Mar 28, 2008 10:21:35 GMT -5
Mary was fully woman right? But she was one special woman. It is odd for me to understand why someone would not honar our Jesus's very own mother, but we honor our own mothers. Does not make since to me, could someone please clear this up with me.
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Post by emily445455 on Mar 28, 2008 13:33:36 GMT -5
I acknowledge that she was a very special woman and had a very special role in God's plan...but I will never pray to her or thru her. |
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Mar 28, 2008 15:08:11 GMT -5
Ok, and that is fine. Noone has to do either of those and alot dont. But to give esther more attention than Mary is just crazy. I have seen protestants just ignore Mary and speek little of her.
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Post by emily445455 on Mar 28, 2008 16:51:13 GMT -5
Marcie (right?)- I think maybe the reason some protestants ignore Mary is because they are so opposed to the RCC praying to her and thru her. I am very opposed that also, lol, but I do know that she was a VERY special woman and had a more important role in life than any other women (except maybe Eve as a second place) in history.
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Mar 28, 2008 17:37:14 GMT -5
Yeah, i think alot of Protestants ignore Mary too, just to be opposite of the Catholic church. That is pretty sad if you think about it, is their faith fake? Do they believe what they do, just to be opposite? That is one of my big problems i have with different churches, they preach about "other" faiths and not just theyre own.
Everyone in the Bible should be special, for if they were good enough for Jesus, they are good enough for me!
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Post by kingjamesbond on Mar 29, 2008 20:19:00 GMT -5
Actually it goes more like this; "I (Jesus) and the Father are One." and; "For in Him all the fulness of Deity dwells in bodily form"and; The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word.and; Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be grasped, but made himself nothing, taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.It is properly; Like Father, like Son! KJB |
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jacee
Junior Member
Posts: 83
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Post by jacee on Mar 30, 2008 12:51:22 GMT -5
I had to go back to my nursing days. The egg of the woman only carries x chromosones. This is the inherited characteristics of her ancestral line. There are 23 of them. The sperm carries both x and y. X is for female, and y for male. In the head of the sperm is the chromosomes, same as the womans egg...23 of them. Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary. I am not suggesting anything natural here. Was a supernatural event. So the ancestral line of Jesus came Holy Spirit and Mary both. Son of David, Son of God. There had to be a spiritual bloodline. By the way, this is what is suggested with this so called child that was supposed to be born of Mary Magdalene and Jesus. That men on earth have a bloodline from Jesus. Poppycock which I think is fuzzy brain from Marijuana. lol And as KJB says....like Father, like Son. thinking of the inherited genes of God....He knew as a child all mysteries. I don't believe though that He ever acted on anything of God until there came an anointing from above. Sort of like what we should be too?  ? have no smileys but am smiling. |
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Post by kingjamesbond on Mar 30, 2008 21:03:44 GMT -5
Jacee,
I never knew all of that.
Amen to that!
KJB
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Mar 30, 2008 22:17:04 GMT -5
what do you both mean when you say the holy spriit overshadowed Mary?
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Post by emily445455 on Mar 31, 2008 13:16:45 GMT -5
I think this is meant:
Luke 1:34-35:
34Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?
35And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.
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).
? have no smileys but am smiling.