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Post by Cepha on May 27, 2009 12:26:11 GMT -5
Well, according to SS, SS is "wrong" since it's not to be found taught by Jesus Christ or anybody else in the Bible. And, one man's contradiction is merely his inability to reconcile the two scriptures for lack of understanding and guidance of the Holy Spirit. If The Holy Spirit wants you to read two scriptures that seemingly contradict each other, but in reality don't and to understand it, then you would (as I can). I can read 1 Corinthians 7:14 and easily accept (because this has been revealed to me) that the righteous unbelieving spouse of a saved spouse is thus made holy by the faith of the saved spouse. I have no problems with accepting that scripture as written. ;D Your problem is if your interpretation of 1st Cor 7:14 is correct the the rest of the bible is wrong. What does " sanctified" mean to you as used by Paul in that verse Watchman? ;D |
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Post by emily445455 on May 27, 2009 12:27:11 GMT -5
Watchman- I have been a member of three protestant churches, two of the three did that as well. It is not jut a catholic church thing. Also saying the Lord's Praying, grumble grumble grumble mummble grumble mummble, Amen. So pointless.
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on May 27, 2009 12:27:43 GMT -5
No one has to do anything! Praying the rosary is a personal choice.
During mass, there is not repeticious praying. We say the Our Father just like yall do. Do you think your church sounds like a "communitive grumbling of words" during service when you all say the Our Father?
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on May 27, 2009 12:28:54 GMT -5
I almost tear up when I say the Our Father during mass. Its beautiful.
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Post by teresahrc on May 27, 2009 12:33:11 GMT -5
The Church is the Body of Christ. No where in the Bible does it say the Church is "a go between", and I didn't say that either.
If you don't need the Church, then you don't need the Bible, because the Holy Spirit used the Church to bring the Bible.
You also don't need several specific verses in the Bible such as these:
5 Peter therefore was kept in prison. But prayer was made without ceasing by the church unto God for him.
(Acts 12)
28 Take heed to yourselves, and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. 29 I know that, after my departure, ravening wolves will enter in among you, not sparing the flock. 30 And of your own selves shall arise men speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
(Acts 20)
28 And God indeed hath set some in the church; first apostles, secondly prophets, thirdly doctors; after that miracles; then the graces of healing, helps, governments, kinds of tongues, interpretations of speeches. (1 Cor. 12)
If you think you don't need the church, that's your pickle. I know that the Bible says God has ordained His Church and we are to submit to it.
(To Titus)
11 For the grace of God our Saviour hath appeared to all men; 12 Instructing us, that, denying ungodliness and worldly desires, we should live soberly, and justly, and godly in this world, 13 Looking for the blessed hope and coming of the glory of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ, 14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and might cleanse to himself a people acceptable, a pursuer of good works. 15 These things speak, and exhort and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
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Post by watchman on May 27, 2009 12:39:59 GMT -5
St Paul was an Apostle not a priest. Anyone ordained by a Priest (commissioned) is a Priest. Jesus ordained Paul to minister (Priests "minister" to people). Jesus is a Priest. Romans 15:16 ...to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles, ministering as a priest the gospel of God, so that my offering of the Gentiles may become acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit. #1 Jesus is the one and only Priest #2 According to you we are all priest (which would be more accurate than the catholic meaning of the word) #3 Romans 15:16 doesn't say the same as my Bible. Romans 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.No mention of a priest here. |
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Post by watchman on May 27, 2009 12:45:21 GMT -5
The Church is the Body of Christ. No where in the Bible does it say the Church is "a go between", and I didn't say that either. Actually you did say it. Yes, and the only authorized interpreter is the Holy Spirit, through the Church. You said the Holy Spirit interprets scripture through the Church. That sounds like a go between to me. |
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Post by teresahrc on May 27, 2009 12:45:59 GMT -5
LOL! Maybe not in Elizabethan English! Who "offers up" things in the Bible? Priests.
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Post by watchman on May 27, 2009 12:48:21 GMT -5
If you don't need the Church, then you don't need the Bible, because the Holy Spirit used the Church to bring the Bible. Actually I do need the Church. I am not an island unto myself, however I do not need the RCC, and I do not need the church to teach me, (although I realize many do because they do not commune with God or study for themselves). I do however need godly fellowship and affirmation as we as humans are not meant to be alone, and are commanded by scripture to assemble together. |
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Post by emily445455 on May 27, 2009 13:23:45 GMT -5
Cradle- My currect church doesn't say the Lord's Prayer. But the churches that I have been a member of that did..yes it sounded like a bunch of mummbling and grumbling.
And I put "have to" in quote becuase, although no one is forcing them to say it...it's what they are supposed to do and everyone else is doing it.
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on May 27, 2009 14:18:24 GMT -5
Dang so your church does not say the Our Father? Thats weird...
My husband's first baptist church does...
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Post by teresahrc on May 27, 2009 14:23:18 GMT -5
Hopefully, people that go to your church pray the Our Father on their own then.
Jesus said that is how we should pray. I don't understand how that is mumbling and grumbling.
(By the way, notice that the "Our Father" is meant to be prayed with more than one person, otherwise, it would say "My Father"
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Post by emily445455 on May 27, 2009 15:29:28 GMT -5
Exactly, Jesus said that is HOW we should pray, not what we should pray.
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Post by watchman on May 27, 2009 15:47:18 GMT -5
Exactly, Jesus said that is HOW we should pray, not what we should pray. Good point emily. The ''Lords prayer'' is an outline not word for word instruction that we are supposed to meaninglessly repeat. |
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on May 27, 2009 16:43:38 GMT -5
Hopefully, people that go to your church pray the Our Father on their own then. Jesus said that is how we should pray. I don't understand how that is mumbling and grumbling. (By the way, notice that the "Our Father" is meant to be prayed with more than one person, otherwise, it would say "My Father" Good point! Never looked at it that way! I think it is sad that someone would frown upon saying the "Our Father". It pretty anti-christian if you ask me! |
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Post by teresahrc on May 27, 2009 17:35:08 GMT -5
Why can't we say it word-for-word? Do you think that you can come up with a better prayer than Jesus?
How is saying the same prayer Jesus gave as an example "meaningless"? What in the world?!
Sure, you can make up your own prayers (extemporaneous) Catholics do that as well. But why say the Lord's prayer is meaningless?
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Post by Ramon on May 27, 2009 20:41:50 GMT -5
Exactly, Jesus said that is HOW we should pray, not what we should pray. Good point emily. The ''Lords prayer'' is an outline not word for word instruction that we are supposed to meaninglessly repeat. How is the Lord's Prayer meaninglessly? Why can't we pray the Lord's Prayer, even though that was the practice in the 1st Century Church, as evident in the Didache? You probably think that there is no repetition of prayers in the Holy Bible. You wrong! Read Matt. 26:44. Jesus prayed a third time in the garden of Gethsemane, saying the exact same words again. It is not the repetition that is the issue. It's the vanity. God looks into our heart, not solely at our words. If our intention is good, he has no issue with our prayers. In Rom. 1:9, Saint Paul says that he always mentions the Romans in his prayers without ceasing. In Rev. 4:8, the angels pray day and night without cessation the same words "Holy, Holy, Holy is the Lord God Almighty." This is repetitious prayer that is pleasing to God. In Psalm 136, the phrase "For His steadfast love endures forever" is more repetitious than saying the Lord's Prayer a few times a day. In fact, if you read the Book of Psalms, you will see repetitious in a few places. In Psalms 103, the phrase "Bless the Lord my Soul" is repeated several times. In Dan. 3:35-66, the phrase "Bless the Lord" is similarly offered repeatedly. For repetitious prayers in the Holy Bible, read Isaiah 6:3, Luke 6:12, Acts 12:5, 1 Thessalonians 3:10, Psalms 136 , Psalms 150. Did not Saint Paul tell us to "pray without ceasing" (1 Tim 5:17)? How could one pray without ceasing and not repeat the same words or phrase? Did He not tell us to give thanks always? I bet you can't go 1 week without repeating words or phrases in your prayers to God! You are bound to repeat words or phrases! Scriptures are not against repetitious of words in prayers only "vain" (pagan) repetitious. If you don't know that, you haven't study Scriptures....period! In IC.XC, Ramon |
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Post by watchman on May 27, 2009 20:44:36 GMT -5
Why can't we say it word-for-word? Do you think that you can come up with a better prayer than Jesus? How is saying the same prayer Jesus gave as an example "meaningless"? What in the world?! Sure, you can make up your own prayers (extemporaneous) Catholics do that as well. But why say the Lord's prayer is meaningless? You can say it word for word, but that is not what Jesus was telling us to do. He was giving us a model for proper prayer. |
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Post by watchman on May 27, 2009 20:47:16 GMT -5
Good point emily. The ''Lords prayer'' is an outline not word for word instruction that we are supposed to meaninglessly repeat. How is the Lord's Prayer meaninglessly? Why can't we pray the Lord's Prayer, even though that was the practice in the 1st Century Church, as evident in the Didache? I did not say the Lord prayer was meaningless, I said repeating it meaninglessly out of tradition or ritual, serves us no purpose. |
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Post by watchman on May 27, 2009 20:51:02 GMT -5
Good point emily. The ''Lords prayer'' is an outline not word for word instruction that we are supposed to meaninglessly repeat. You probably think that there is no repetition of prayers in the Holy Bible. You wrong! You are wrong in your assumption, not only do I realize Paul prayed similar prayers, I too pray the same prayer often. You have obviously misunderstood my post. Any prayer is good, but repeating the same prayer over and over out of tradition and not from the heart does no good. |
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