How many times have you been baptized?

[Cepha]

How many times have you been baptized?

I understand that when non-Catholic Christians (NCC's) switch churches, they get rebaptized.

My question is do you get baptized into your church?

For Catholics, baptism is into Christianity (not Catholicism because all Catholicism is a manner of practicing Christianity).

For example, when my brother went to a Pentecostal church, he had to get rebaptized because they said his first baptism wasn't valid (where the Catholic Church says that any Christian baptism is valid so long as it follows Biblical standards meaning that a NCC doesn't have to be rebaptized since they are already Christians).

When I asked him why he got baptized again, he got upset and didn't want to answer me.

Anyway, is The Holy Spirit only regulated to certain churches?

Or is it a "universal" Holy Spirit (for all mankind that accepts it)?

[cradlecathlic27]

The Catholic church does not rebaptise as long as your where baptised in the name of the Holy Spirit, and done correctly. If a Baptist wants to convert, they doont have to be rebaptised. We acknoledge their Baptism.

[teresahrc]

At my former Church, which was a "Vineyard" church, my Mother-in-Law wanted to be a member of the Church and they told her she would have to be baptized again! (She was baptized as an infant).
Then, there was another girl (in her 20's) who was getting baptized and she said she was getting baptized again because she didn't "remember" her first baptism. Even at the time, I thought that was a little odd to be baptized 2 times. What if someone got in a car accident, and got amnesia and forgot about their baptism? According to that Church, I guess they would have to be baptized again to. Doesn't that defeat the purpose of it, even if you think it's only a "symbol"? Christ died once, not twice!
Still, at least that Church did perform baptisms. Some Churches don't really do baptisms, or at least they don't promote it or encourage it.

[watchman]

I was only baptized once (after my Salvation) but my wife was rebaptized after she was saved, because the first time she was baptized she was 12 and doing it out of church ritual. She was not a true christian at the time, so when she got saved she wanted to be rebaptized in true faith.

[Cepha]

Apr 30, 2009 12:55:59 GMT -5 watchman said:

I was only baptized once (after my Salvation) but my wife was rebaptized after she was saved, because the first time she was baptized she was 12 and doing it out of church ritual. She was not a true christian at the time, so when she got saved she wanted to be rebaptized in true faith.

For Catholics, we believe that parents have sole custody of their children in everyway until the children can decide for themselves.

In The Bible, it states that "households" were baptized. The word used for households in Koine Greek automatically included infants, so their being baptized was automatic. Makes sense as Jesus said to not keep the little children from coming unto Him. He never placed any restrictions or conditions on age. It was common practice since the beginning of Christianity for children to be baptized.

I can fully understand why someone would want to make a conscious decision to be baptized of their own will though.

We call that "Confirmation" in Catholicism (where a baptized person "confirms" that they are Christian by their own will).

[Cepha]

This leads to a good question I never thought about before...does The Bible state that there has to be a condition that the person being baptized "has to" make that decision?

Or can a person make that decision for them?

(i.e. parent, guardian, etc...)

[teresahrc]

Apr 30, 2009 12:55:59 GMT -5 watchman said:

I was only baptized once (after my Salvation) but my wife was rebaptized after she was saved, because the first time she was baptized she was 12 and doing it out of church ritual. She was not a true christian at the time, so when she got saved she wanted to be rebaptized in true faith.

Well, I think that a lot of people have done like that. My husband was baptized as a child, but then he was baptized in the Jordan river when he was college-age. But the latter I think he did just because he though it would be cool or something, I don't know. I think he was going to a Vineyard Church then too. I don't agree with "double dipping" (I'm sorry, I just had to.. ....I'm a little hyper at the moment) but I don't think your wife or my husband are like bad people because of it in any way. I just believe that the ideal is "One Lord, one faith, one baptism".

peace
teresa

[Cepha]

Apr 30, 2009 13:09:36 GMT -5 @teresahrc said:

"double dipping"

peace
teresa

LOL!

I gotta tell my brother that one!

LOL!

I told him that he was already baptized as a Christian by his mother when he was an infant. But he didn't see it as valid (or perhaps, he was taught that it wasn't valid by his new church...you know, the "Benny Hinn" bunch...literally).

Anyway, to each his/her own.

I wasn't knocking his decision to be double dipped (thanks Teresa! LOL ), but just defending the Christian tradition of infant baptism.

[Cepha]

Monday, October 08, 2007
The Didache on Baptism

Quoting from: www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/didache-lightfoot.html

Here is what the Didache (circa 100 AD) says about baptism:


7:1 But concerning baptism, thus shall ye baptize.
7:2 Having first recited all these things, baptize {in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit} in living (running) water.
7:3 But if thou hast not living water, then baptize in other water;
7:4 and if thou art not able in cold, then in warm.
7:5 But if thou hast neither, then pour water on the head thrice in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.
7:6 But before the baptism let him that baptizeth and him that is baptized fast, and any others also who are able;
7:7 and thou shalt order him that is baptized to fast a day or two before.

godfearin.blogspot.com/2007/10/didache-on-baptism.html

[Cepha]

Infant Baptism
"And many, both men and women, who have been Christ's disciples from childhood, remain pure and at the age of sixty or seventy years..." Justin Martyr, First Apology, 15:6 (A.D. 110-165).

"And when a child has been born to one of them, they give thanks to God [baptism]; and if moreover it happen to die in childhood, they give thanks to God the more, as for one who as passed through the world without sins." Aristides, Apology, 15 (A.D. 140).

"Polycarp declared, 'Eighty and six years have I served Him, and He never did me injury: how then can I blaspheme my King and Saviour?" Polycarp, Martyrdom of Polycarp, 9 (A.D. 156).

"For He came to save all through means of Himself--all, I say, who through Him are born again to God--infants, and children, and boys, and youths, and old men." Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 2,22:4 (A.D. 180).

"I, therefore, brethren, who have lived sixty-five years in the Lord." Polycrates, Fragment in Eusebius' Church History, V:24:7 (A.D. 190).

[watchman]

Apr 30, 2009 13:04:55 GMT -5 Cepha said:

This leads to a good question I never thought about before...does The Bible state that there has to be a condition that the person being baptized "has to" make that decision?

Or can a person make that decision for them?

(i.e. parent, guardian, etc...)

Philip told the eunuch to believe on Christ.
Acts8
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

[Cepha]

Apr 30, 2009 13:59:50 GMT -5 watchman said:

Apr 30, 2009 13:04:55 GMT -5 Cepha said:

This leads to a good question I never thought about before...does The Bible state that there has to be a condition that the person being baptized "has to" make that decision?

Or can a person make that decision for them?

(i.e. parent, guardian, etc...)

Philip told the eunuch to believe on Christ.
Acts8
36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

That's an excellent example of one being evangelized and converted.

How do you read this:

1 Corinthians 7:14

For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife,
and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband:
else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

[emily445455]

I was baptized as an infant, then baptized again after I accepted Christ. I view the latter as my only baptism.

[Cepha]

Apr 30, 2009 16:41:29 GMT -5 emily445455 said:

I was baptized as an infant, then baptized again after I accepted Christ. I view the latter as my only baptism.

I could understand that.

So you feel that the Biblical Tradition of children being baptized is invalid?

[teresahrc]

How do you read this:

1 Corinthians 7:14

For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife,
and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband:
else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.

Yeah, really.

And what about this:

2 From the lips of children and infants
you have ordained praise
because of your enemies,
to silence the foe and the avenger. Psalm 8

Jesus said that those who worship God must worship in "Spirit" and "Truth". If these infants and children are giving God true worship, (Jesus also quoted this verse) then do they not have true genuine faith? They may not understand all the complexities of the faith, but they believe enough to render worship to God in "Spirit" and in "Truth".

Or what about this excellent verse:

14But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it, 15and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus (2 Tim 3)

If Timothy could know "from infancy" the holy Scriptures, "which are able to make you wise for salvation", who could have prevented him from being baptized as an infant?

teresa

[Ramon]

Apr 30, 2009 12:15:45 GMT -5 Cepha said:

How many times have you been baptized?

I understand that when non-Catholic Christians (NCC's) switch churches, they get rebaptized.

My question is do you get baptized into your church?

For Catholics, baptism is into Christianity (not Catholicism because all Catholicism is a manner of practicing Christianity).

For example, when my brother went to a Pentecostal church, he had to get rebaptized because they said his first baptism wasn't valid (where the Catholic Church says that any Christian baptism is valid so long as it follows Biblical standards meaning that a NCC doesn't have to be rebaptized since they are already Christians).

When I asked him why he got baptized again, he got upset and didn't want to answer me.

Anyway, is The Holy Spirit only regulated to certain churches?

Or is it a "universal" Holy Spirit (for all mankind that accepts it)?

In the Orthodox Church, it depends on which Jurisdiction you in. The norm in The Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia is that every catechumen gets rebaptized if they were baptize in a non-Orthodox Church. In there view, you were baptized in a heterodox Church, so rebaptism is needed.

However, all Jurisdiction outside the ROCOR usually accept non-Orthodox Christians baptism, so long as there were baptize in the Trinitarian formula. Christians coming to Orthodoxy from other denominations, and who had been baptized with water in the name of the Trinity, are received in the Church through holy chrismation, after which their former baptism is deemed to be efficacious (Heterodox baptism has been treated as non-efficacious) . The final decision as to the mode of reception to be used in each case rests with the bishop.

Certain types of non-Orthodox are received into the Orthodox Church through baptism (and Christmation); others through chrismation (only), and others through profession of faith. These provisions are spelled out in the canons of two of the Ecumenical Councils regarding the reception of those outside the Orthodox Church.

I was baptize in my Pentecostal Church (in the Trinitarian formula), however upon entering in the Orthodox Church, I was received through Chrismation (which is seen as the completion to my Baptism).

In Orthodoxy, Holy Baptism and the Divine Eucharist brings you in communion with Christ and the Church.

In IC.XC,
Ramon

[teresahrc]

In the Orthodox Church, it depends on which Jurisdiction you in. The norm in The Russian Orthodox Church Outside of Russia is that every catechumen gets rebaptized if they were baptize in a non-Orthodox Church. In there view, you were baptized in a heterodox Church, so rebaptism is needed.

However, all Jurisdiction outside the ROCOR

Ramon, you got me all confu-sed. What is the "ROCOR" and why is it different from other Orthodox Churches, and is there a "Russian Orthodox Church Inside Russia" and is that different from the one outside Russia? And why is this night different from all other nights? Oy vey

[emily445455]

May 1, 2009 8:48:34 GMT -5 Cepha said:

I could understand that.

So you feel that the Biblical Tradition of children being baptized is invalid?

Invalid? Invalid for what? Salvation? I don't believe water baptism is necessary for Salvation.

I also don't believe infant baptism is Biblical.

[Ramon]

Scriptures is not against Infant Baptism. Actually, Infant Baptism originated by the Holy Apostles. Cepha gave a wonderful fact above (concerning the word "household"). Infant Baptism was practice by the Early Church (1st-10th Century). The Holy Fathers of the Church believed in Infant Baptism, although some was baptize as adults and some Early Christians delayed there Baptism because they believed in the heresy that stated that anyone who sin after Baptism will never be forgiven.

It was only recently been challenged by Protestants. Also read Col 2:11-12, baptism is the new "circumcision" for all people of the New Covenant. Therefore, baptism is for babies as well as adults

In IC.XC,
Ramon

[teresahrc]

I also don't believe infant baptism is Biblical

Just because the Bible doesn't say "Baptize infants" doesn't mean it isn't true.

Where in the Bible does it say that children "under the age of accountability" will go to heaven? I've never read that, but most Christians believe that's true.

teresa