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Post by Cepha on May 29, 2009 11:19:29 GMT -5
The church may teach against it...but i still take them. I actually never learned that when i was in cyo or from anyone at the church i learned that on here... But i have a question... my obgyn is in a st. elizabeth hospital and they prescribe it to me. Maybe they are not totally affiliated with the hospital, but they only deliver babies at st. e's. I thought that any Church run hospital doesn't allow any kind of birth control or anti-Church type practices. Are you sure it's an RCC hospital? Not Episcopalian/Anglican? They look (like their churches) just like ours. I can't believe that if it's an RCC hospital, they'd allow it to happen. |
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Post by Cepha on May 29, 2009 11:22:19 GMT -5
Joey, you can probably connect the dots  Yeah, I can, I guess those dots lead back to your OSAS live as I want God will turn a blind eye to my sin belief.  |
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Post by Cepha on May 29, 2009 11:23:56 GMT -5
It, like divorce and other things has been accepted and promoted by some Christian groups, but The Catholic Church is and has always been and will always be against it because it's just plain wrong. Tell that to those Catholics who find nothing wrong in Birth Control and refuse to abide what the Roman Church has declared....... ;D Not bashing anyone, just find this very strange....... In IC.XC, Ramon In America, I think that would be 100% of those who aren't devout members (meaning, about 70% of the RCC in the USA). Cafetiria Catholics. I ain't one of them, but that's for God to sort out. Their the same lot who support feminism, abortion, all that. Me? I'm too busy trying to work out my own salvation to judge theirs ;D You find it strange that there are Catholics that don't live 100% to Catholicism's standards? What's the rate of Orthodox who live 100% to EO standards in America (I know the answer...I lived with one for almost a year! LOL! )? ;D |
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Post by watchman on May 29, 2009 11:24:24 GMT -5
Yet you might have gotten pregnant at 17? and you were a Christian? How does that work? It works like this...she did it. End of story. The difference between a Christian and non-Christians is that the Christian "knows" they are sinners and need Christ. Whatever she did or didn't do is not for you or I to judge. I think that should be left alone. I smell judgement in your question to her... John 85Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. I am not going to stone her, lol, however I haven't seen anything in her posts that would cause me to believe that she believe what she did was wrong. She seems perfectly fine with premarital. Maybe i am misunderstanding her view? |
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Post by Cepha on May 29, 2009 11:25:01 GMT -5
I personally dont give 2 shits who has the most abortions in this country...it should not be legal at all! The more you talk cepha the more you sound racist! Really I view sinning as being more serious than being ornery. This is your reaction to CC cursing, but you think premarital sex is O.K. that kind of a double standard don't ya think? If Jesus were here right now, how would he respond to your questioning her like that?  |
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Post by Cepha on May 29, 2009 11:28:35 GMT -5
It works like this...she did it. End of story. The difference between a Christian and non-Christians is that the Christian "knows" they are sinners and need Christ. Whatever she did or didn't do is not for you or I to judge. I think that should be left alone. I smell judgement in your question to her... John 85Now Moses in the law commanded us, that such should be stoned: but what sayest thou?
6This they said, tempting him, that they might have to accuse him. But Jesus stooped down, and with his finger wrote on the ground, as though he heard them not.
7So when they continued asking him, he lifted up himself, and said unto them, He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her. I am not going to stone her, lol, however I haven't seen anything in her posts that would cause me to believe that she believe what she did was wrong. She seems perfectly fine with premarital. Maybe i am misunderstanding her view? Maybe you shouldn't even be questioning her on that. Just because she shared it, that's not a "pass" for you to dig deeper into more than what she's shared. What is it with non-Catholic Christians and their obession with other's sex lives (first Jesus' mother Mary, now each other)?  You should drop this one. And, I personally think (and this is just my personal opinion) that you owe her an apology. She's a woman. We're men. We shouldn't cross that line period. I am by far no angel and I've been pretty wrong myself in the heat of forum battle, but this is something I see beginning with you and continuing with you and you alone. Let it go Joey.  |
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Post by emily445455 on May 29, 2009 11:47:44 GMT -5
This is your reaction to CC cursing, but you think premarital sex is O.K. that kind of a double standard don't ya think? I never said I thought it was OK. I stated it matter-of-factly. |
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Post by emily445455 on May 29, 2009 11:49:11 GMT -5
Thank you Steven.
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Post by emily445455 on May 29, 2009 11:51:34 GMT -5
Steven, why do you think it is wrong?
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Post by Cepha on May 29, 2009 11:57:00 GMT -5
I feel kind of cruddy having to point it out, but I just couldn't keep quiet Em. You're very welcome and I hope you guys will correct me when I'm wrong. (Joey, I dont' want you to fee like I'm jumping on you, but maybe I'm seeing something that you don't in your comments. I'm pointing them out not to get on you, but to make you think about how what you say affects her. Understand?) |
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Post by Cepha on May 29, 2009 12:01:02 GMT -5
Steven, why do you think it is wrong? I'm all for responsible birth planning (low income, people want to do the right thing, not bring children in the world to suffer, wait unti the time is right, etc...). The RCC has a natural birth planning method that has been proven to be greatly effective and it does not violate God's laws. Here are some scriptures that can be applied towards artificial contraception (as opposed to natural birth planning): DESTESTABLE ACTSPenalties for sexual offenses: Wasting SeedGenesis 8-10: “Then Judah said to Onan, Go in to your brother's wife, and perform your duty as a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother. Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother's wife, he wasted his seed on the ground in order not to give offspring to his brother. But what he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord; so He took his life also.”In these verses, Onan was told by Judah to go marry his deceased brothers widow. His brother, Er, had been killed by God before he had any children. Onan was to produce a child who would carry on Er’s name. As spelled out in these verses, Onan was unwilling to raise up offspring that would not be considered his, and “went in to his brother’s wife” and afterwards wasting his seed. As a result of this action by Onan, God killed him also. The early Protestant leaders opposed contraception, as two examples in this article indicate, on moral and Biblical grounds. Yet many modern Protestant commentaries say the reason God killed Onan was his refusal to raise up a child for his brother or that he had disobeyed his father. But were these really the reasons God to killed Onan? In Deuteronomy 25:5-10, Scripture says that for whatever a man’s reasons for refusing to raise up a dead brother’s children, the penalty was humiliation (shoe being pulled off, face spit on, scorning), not death. It would be unusual for God to lash out such a severe punishment to Onan but elsewhere, others receive a much lighter penalty for a similar offense. So was Onan's death for the other possibility, disobedience to his father? Genesis 2:24: “For this cause a man shall leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife; and they shall become one flesh.”When a man and woman marries it ends any required obedience to his father and mother. When Onan married his brother’s widow, any parental authority Judah had over Onan ended. So God didn’t kill Onan for disobeying Judah, because according to the word of God, Onan had no requirement to obey his father. What did Onan do differently than the man in Deuteronomy 25:5-10? This leaves the obvious conclusion, God killed Onan for wasting seed, a contraceptive act. www.catholicsource.net/abcbible.html |
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Post by Ramon on May 29, 2009 12:07:25 GMT -5
I agree with Cepha. Watchman let it go. You obviously read more into her posts than she originally posted......You misunderstood her completely....
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Post by Cepha on May 29, 2009 12:07:35 GMT -5
Scripture
Gen 1:28, 9:1,7; 35:11 - from the beginning, the Lord commands us to be fruitful ("fertile") and multiply. A husband and wife fulfill God's plan for marriage in the bringing forth of new life, for God is life itself.
Gen. 28:3 - Isaac's prayer over Jacob shows that fertility and procreation are considered blessings from God.
Gen. 38:8-10 - Onan is killed by God for practicing contraception (in this case, withdrawal) and spilling his semen on the ground.
Gen. 38:11-26 - Judah, like Onan, also rejected God's command to keep up the family lineage, but he was not killed.
Deut. 25:7-10 - the penalty for refusing to keep up a family lineage is not death, like Onan received. Onan was killed for wasting seed.
Gen. 38:9 - also, the author's usage of the graphic word "seed," which is very uncharacteristic for Hebrew writing, further highlights the reason for Onan's death.
Exodus 23:25-26; Deut. 7:13-14 - God promises blessings which include no miscarriages or barrenness. Children are blessings from God, and married couples must always be open to God's plan for new life with every act of marital intimacy.
Lev.18:22-23;20:13 - wasting seed with non-generative sexual acts warrants death. Many Protestant churches, which have all strayed from the Catholic Church, reject this fundamental truth (few Protestants and Catholics realize that contraception was condemned by all of Christianity - and other religions - until the Anglican church permitted it in certain cases at the Lambeth conference in 1930. This opened the floodgates of error).
Lev. 21:17,20 - crushed testicles are called a defect and a blemish before God. God reveals that deliberate sterilization and any other methods which prevent conception are intrinsically evil.
Deut. 23:1 - whoever has crushed testicles or is castrated cannot enter the assembly. Contraception is objectively sinful and contrary, not only to God's Revelation, but the moral and natural law.
Deut. 25:11-12 - there is punishment for potential damage to the testicles, for such damage puts new life at risk. It, of course, follows that vasectomies, which are done with willful consent, are gravely contrary to the natural law.
1 Chron. 25:5 - God exalts His people by blessing them with many children. When married couples contracept, they are declaring "not your will God, but my will be done."
Psalm 127:3-5 - children are a gift of favor from God and blessed is a full quiver. Married couples must always be open to God's precious gift of life. Contraception, which shows a disregard for human life, has lead to the great evils of abortion, euthanasia, and infanticide.
Hosea 9:11; Jer. 18:21 - God punishes Israel by preventing pregnancy. Contraception is a curse, and married couples who use contraception are putting themselves under the same curse.
Mal. 2:14 - marriage is not a contract (which is a mere exchange of property or services). It is a covenant, which means a supernatural exchange of persons. Just as God is three in one, so are a husband and wife, who become one flesh and bring forth new life, three in one. Marital love is a reflection of the Blessed Trinity.
Mal. 2:15 - What does God desire? Godly offspring. What is contraception? A deliberate act against God's will. With contraception, a couple declares, "God may want an eternal being created with our union, but we say no." Contraception is a grave act of selfishness.
Matt. 19:5-6 - Jesus said a husband and wife shall become one. They are no longer two, but one, just as God is three persons, yet one. The expression of authentic marital love reintegrates our bodies and souls to God, and restores us to our original virginal state (perfect integration of body and soul) before God.
Matt. 19:6; Eph. 5:31 - contraception prevents God's ability to "join" together. Just as Christ's love for the Church is selfless and sacrificial, and a husband and wife reflect this union, so a husband and wife's love for each other must also be selfless and sacrificial. This means being open to new life.
Acts 5:1-11 - Ananias and Sapphira were slain because they withheld part of a gift. Fertility is a gift from God and cannot be withheld.
Rom.1:26-27 - sexual acts without the possibility of procreation is sinful. Self-giving love is life-giving love, or the love is a lie. The unitive and procreative elements of marital love can never be divided, or the marital love is also divided, and God is left out of the marriage.
1 Cor. 6:19-20 - the body is the temple of the Holy Spirit; thus, we must glorify God in our bodies by being open to His will.
1 Cor. 7:5 - this verse supports the practice of natural family planning ("NFP"). Married couples should not refuse each other except perhaps by agreement for a season, naturally.
Gal. 6:7-8 - God is not mocked for what a man sows. If to the flesh, corruption. If to the Spirit, eternal life.
Eph. 5:25 - Paul instructs husbands to love their wives as Christ loved the Church, by giving his entire body to her and holding nothing back. With contraception, husbands tell their wives, I love you except your fertility, and you can have me except for my fertility. This love is a lie because it is self-centered, and not self-giving and life-giving.
Eph. 5:29-31; Phil. 3:2 - mutilating the flesh (e.g., surgery to prevent conception) is gravely sinful. Many Protestant churches reject this most basic moral truth.
1 Tim. 2:15 - childbearing is considered a "work" through which women may be saved by God's grace.
Deut. 22:13-21 – these verses also show that God condemns pre-marital intercourse. The living expression of God’s creative love is reserved for a sacramental marriage between one man and one woman.
Rev. 9:21; 21:8; 22:15; Gal. 5:20 - these verses mention the word "sorcery." The Greek word is "pharmakeia" which includes abortifacient potions such as birth control pills. These pharmakeia are mortally sinful. Moreover, chemical contraception does not necessarily prevent conception, but may actually kill the child in the womb after conception has occurred (by preventing the baby from attaching to the uterine wall). Contraception is a lie that has deceived millions, but the Church is holding her arms open wide to welcome back her children who have strayed from the truth.
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Post by Ramon on May 29, 2009 12:24:18 GMT -5
In America, I think that would be 100% of those who aren't devout members (meaning, about 70% of the RCC in the USA). Cafetiria Catholics. I ain't one of them, but that's for God to sort out. Their the same lot who support feminism, abortion, all that. Me? I'm too busy trying to work out my own salvation to judge theirs ;D You find it strange that there are Catholics that don't live 100% to Catholicism's standards? What's the rate of Orthodox who live 100% to EO standards in America (I know the answer...I lived with one for almost a year! LOL! )? ;D I find it strange that a Catholic refuse to follow everything his or her Church teaches. How can a Catholic believe in abortion (as some do) when the Roman Church condemn the practice? How can they defend the Catholic Church when even they disagree with some aspects of Catholicism? I am not here to bash anyone, it just seems odd to me........ If a Orthodox refuse to follow everything the Holy Orthodox Church teaches, then he or she isn't Orthodox to begin with. One can't say they Orthodox and yet disagree with one aspect of Orthodoxy. Either you accept it all or don't be Orthodox. All we can do is teach what the One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church has taught for the past 2,000 years. It's up to you if you want to follow Christ's Holy Church or not. In IC.XC, Ramon |
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Post by Cepha on May 29, 2009 12:29:01 GMT -5
I find it strange that a Catholic refuse to follow everything his or her Church teaches. How can a Catholic believe in abortion (as some do) when the Roman Church condemn the practice? It's a lot more prevalent than you might think in every religion. I'd say that Muslims are the most adherent religion to their tenats. Jews and Christians are all over the place. Way to moderate for my taste. I'm with you 100% except on one point...I'll let Christ decide who is and who isn't Catholic enough with respect to my faith. I leave that up to Him. But I'm all for one having to accept all Catholic Teachings PERIOD! Otherwise, at the very least, you cannot call yourself a Catholic in line with Church teachings. Me? I'm 100% in line with Catholic Church teachings doctrinally. I have no qualms about ever altering my beliefs to what The Church teaches. Not one. If they all of a sudden began to teach that the sky was yellow, I'd go against The World and agree. I'm a Zombie when it comes to The Church! LOL! |
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Post by emily445455 on May 29, 2009 13:00:24 GMT -5
I heard with the natural planning method, women have a 20% chance of getting pregnant. That seems really high, especially when a couple cannot afford another child.
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Post by Cepha on May 29, 2009 13:05:19 GMT -5
I heard with the natural planning method, women have a 20% chance of getting pregnant. That seems really high, especially when a couple cannot afford another child. Look into it. |
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Post by watchman on May 29, 2009 13:09:46 GMT -5
I agree with Cepha. Watchman let it go. You obviously read more into her posts than she originally posted......You misunderstood her completely.... I think it was pretty obviously what she was saying, would have been hard to misunderstand it. |
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Post by emily445455 on May 29, 2009 13:14:11 GMT -5
Joey, I had premarital sex after I was Saved. |
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Post by emily445455 on May 29, 2009 13:15:49 GMT -5
Absolutely love that picture, Steven.
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