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Post by watchman on May 29, 2009 13:18:34 GMT -5
DESTESTABLE ACTSPenalties for sexual offenses: Wasting SeedGenesis 8-10: “Then Judah said to Onan, Go in to your brother's wife, and perform your duty as a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother. Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother's wife, he wasted his seed on the ground in order not to give offspring to his brother. But what he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord; so He took his life also.”In these verses, Onan was told by Judah to go marry his deceased brothers widow. His brother, Er, had been killed by God before he had any children. Onan was to produce a child who would carry on Er’s name. As spelled out in these verses, Onan was unwilling to raise up offspring that would not be considered his, and “went in to his brother’s wife” and afterwards wasting his seed. As a result of this action by Onan, God killed him also. Wasting seed is not a detestable act. In this story Onan disobeyed a direct order from God, which was to impregnate his brothers wife. However Onan wasted his seed instead, but the wasting of the seed was not the problem, his disobedience was. For you to take that story and claim that because of it all people who waste their seed are committing detestable acts is like using the story in Acts 5 about Ananias and Sapphira to say anyone that doesn't give all they have to the Church should be struck dead. |
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on May 29, 2009 15:45:04 GMT -5
The church may teach against it...but i still take them. I actually never learned that when i was in cyo or from anyone at the church i learned that on here... But i have a question... my obgyn is in a st. elizabeth hospital and they prescribe it to me. Maybe they are not totally affiliated with the hospital, but they only deliver babies at st. e's. I thought that any Church run hospital doesn't allow any kind of birth control or anti-Church type practices. Are you sure it's an RCC hospital? Not Episcopalian/Anglican? They look (like their churches) just like ours. I can't believe that if it's an RCC hospital, they'd allow it to happen. Yes these are Catholic hospitals...they are the Christas St. Mary's and Elizabeth's. These hospitals will not tie tubes or do historectomies, but my obgyn is in a building connected to the hospital and they prescrible BC. |
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Post by emily445455 on May 29, 2009 17:30:45 GMT -5
I don't understand, Steven. You are okay with purposely making the sperm swim around until it dies, yet not okay with it going into the trash can? I'm confused.
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Post by alfie on May 29, 2009 21:11:34 GMT -5
Anyone heard of ex- Catholic Father Alberto Cutie?
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Post by Ramon on May 29, 2009 21:21:07 GMT -5
Anyone heard of ex- Catholic Father Alberto Cutie? No, but I google his name. Why are you posting yet another Catholic Sex scandal?   What is your fixation with the Catholic Church' Sex Scandals.......? I am clueless as to why you mention his name in this thread........ In IC.XC, Ramon |
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Post by alfie on May 30, 2009 4:43:40 GMT -5
Wow everyone. I just read through most of these posts. I think you all totally didn't read my first post though. I said I didn't want this to be personal, but about the issue of birth control. Anyway, I agree with the Catholic Church's teaching against birth control. I think that in this issue, many people stumble and compromise because our culture and time has made it almost "normal". Birth control is really mocking God in a way. It's like saying "why did you make me like this?" It's like saying God made a mistake when He created us. We need to come up with some potions and devices to "fix" this huge problem of reproduction. We become conspirators with people that approve such evils as "Social Darwinism", abortion, euthanasia, human cloning, etc. When we use birth control we say that children are burdens, that we are in control of our own destiny, we conspire with those who tried to build a tower reaching to heaven to make a name for ourselves. We think that the creation of new life is in our own hands, not in the hands of the Creator. I am in no way judging anyone, because I have used birth control in the past. Also, a lot of people don't realize that birth control pills (or shots, or IUD etc) can actually cause an abortion by allowing fertilization, but preventing implantation of the zygote in the uterus. The RCC has a natural birth planning method. If you use it you still are using it to control how many children you want to have. In Genesis, God said to be fruitful and multiply. So if you only have one child isn't that still being fruitful because the Bible doesn't specifically say how many we should have? Also, when God said to" be fruitful and multiply" the "fall" hadn't occured so Adam and Eve would not have had to worry about providing for their children. And what about dominion over the Earth? Didn't God tell Adam and Eve to have dominion over everything? Wouldn't deciding how many children we want to produce be part of how we exercise dominion? |
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Post by Cepha on May 30, 2009 8:17:19 GMT -5
I agree with Cepha. Watchman let it go. You obviously read more into her posts than she originally posted......You misunderstood her completely.... I think it was pretty obviously what she was saying, would have been hard to misunderstand it. Believe it or not, not everybody was a virgin like you were when you got married. You "were" a virgin when you got married right? And your current wife "is" the only woman you've had relations with, right? |
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Post by Cepha on May 30, 2009 8:20:12 GMT -5
Absolutely love that picture, Steven. Me too...actually, one of the scenes in the Passion of The Christ was when the adulteress was brought to Jesus and she crawled to Him and reached out to Him. I broke down in tears because I saw myself like that when I reverted back to Christianity. That was exactly how I felt...lowly.  |
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Post by Cepha on May 30, 2009 8:22:56 GMT -5
This is how I came back to Christ...I couldn't even bear to face Him.
I couldn't even put my eyes on Him from the shame I felt as a sinner.
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Post by Cepha on May 30, 2009 8:26:05 GMT -5
I thought that any Church run hospital doesn't allow any kind of birth control or anti-Church type practices. Are you sure it's an RCC hospital? Not Episcopalian/Anglican? They look (like their churches) just like ours. I can't believe that if it's an RCC hospital, they'd allow it to happen. Yes these are Catholic hospitals...they are the Christas St. Mary's and Elizabeth's. These hospitals will not tie tubes or do historectomies, but my obgyn is in a building connected to the hospital and they prescrible BC. Does the building he works in belong to The Church or is it on Church property? |
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Post by Cepha on May 30, 2009 8:31:23 GMT -5
Wasting seed is not a detestable act. In this story Onan disobeyed a direct order from God, which was to impregnate his brothers wife. However Onan wasted his seed instead, but the wasting of the seed was not the problem, his disobedience was. For you to take that story and claim that because of it all people who waste their seed are committing detestable acts is like using the story in Acts 5 about Ananias and Sapphira to say anyone that doesn't give all they have to the Church should be struck dead. That's your personal interpretation of it, fine. Do you believe that masterbation is sexually moral or sexually immoral? Here are other references to a person who sins against their body: 1 Peter 2:11
11 Beloved, I urge you as aliens and strangers to abstain from fleshly lusts which wage war against the soul.
James 1:14-15
14 But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. 15 Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.
2 Timothy 2:22
22 Now flee from youthful lusts and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart.
Masturbation is also coveting (lust just being a sexual form of coveting). We don't have to go very far to learn that coveting is wrong, try the 10th Commandment:
Exodus 20:17
17 "You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife or his male servant or his female servant or his ox or his donkey or anything that belongs to your neighbor."So not only is masturbation lust and coveting it is also sexual, making it sexual immorality. We might ask ourselves, "what are the sexual organs made for?" and, "what context were they intended?" Was God's intention to give man or woman their own pleasure source? If God intends for sexual morality to be a man and a woman coming together in marriage is it moral for us to go about it on our own? 2 Corinthians 12:21
21 I am afraid that when I come again my God may humiliate me before you, and I may mourn over many of those who have sinned in the past and not repented of the impurity, immorality and sensuality which they have practiced.
Galatians 5:19-21
19 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: immorality, impurity, sensuality, 20 idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, disputes, dissensions, factions, 21 envying, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Ephesians 5:3-5
3 But immorality or any impurity or greed must not even be named among you, as is proper among saints; 4 and there must be no filthiness and silly talk, or coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks. 5 For this you know with certainty, that no immoral or impure person or covetous man, who is an idolater, has an inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and God.
1 Thessalonians 4:3-5
3 For this is the will of God, your sanctification; that is, that you abstain from sexual immorality; 4 that each of you know how to possess his own vessel in sanctification and honor, 5 not in lustful passion, like the Gentiles who do not know God;When a man's seed leaves his body, he is considered unclean. In Leviticus 15, it distinguishes between two events. When a man's seed leaves his body alone and when it's done with a woman. Leviticus 15 16And if any man's seed of copulation go out from him, then he shall wash all his flesh in water, and be unclean until the even.
17And every garment, and every skin, whereon is the seed of copulation, shall be washed with water, and be unclean until the even.
18The woman also with whom man shall lie with seed of copulation, they shall both bathe themselves in water, and be unclean until the even. When one masterbates, they become unclean. |
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Post by Cepha on May 30, 2009 8:39:10 GMT -5
I don't understand, Steven. You are okay with purposely making the sperm swim around until it dies, yet not okay with it going into the trash can? I'm confused. You don't understand? LOL! I don't understand your question! ;D It is a sin for a man OR woman to abuse the gift of sex from God for personal pleasure. It was made for the communal giving of one's self to their partner, not for self gratification. The Seed is literally "life" giving material that was not created by God for anything other than to create life. That is it's purpose. |
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Post by emily445455 on May 30, 2009 8:45:42 GMT -5
If Seed was created by God only for the purpose of creating life...isn't using the NFP method wasting it? A woman purposely calculates when she is ovulating and when she isn't, and only has sex when she isn't...causing the sperm to be wasted by dieing inside of her.
How is that different than it being in a condom and putting it in the trash? It dies either way, and it's death is on purpose by the woman/man.
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Post by Cepha on May 30, 2009 8:45:59 GMT -5
Anyone heard of ex- Catholic Father Alberto Cutie? No, but I google his name. Why are you posting yet another Catholic Sex scandal? What is your fixation with the Catholic Church' Sex Scandals.......? I am clueless as to why you mention his name in this thread........ In IC.XC, Ramon He's got a point there Alfie. If you start a thread on it, we can discuss it there. I think this thread is going a little off topic as it is (guilty as charged myself). But, in Alfie's defense, a thread will become the "thread of the day" where pretty much anything that is current event will get discussed. I've done it. I think we all have. But again, Ramon is correct. I definitely want to talk about Father Cutie. ;D |
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Post by Cepha on May 30, 2009 8:54:28 GMT -5
The RCC has a natural birth planning method. If you use it you still are using it to control how many children you want to have. There is nothing wrong with controlling the size of one's family naturally (through temporary abstinance) and I'd say it was definitely wrong to just bring children into the world if you cannot afford to provide a good life for them. There is a difference between natural family planning and birth control. Most birth control literally murders fetuses or sperm (life giving natural material created by God). It's man manipulating God's material. Yes. I agree. |
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Post by Cepha on May 30, 2009 9:00:07 GMT -5
If Seed was created by God only for the purpose of creating life...isn't using the NFP method wasting it? No. Because there is no possibility of reproduction. There is no limit on when a man can have sex with a woman in the Bible except during menstration. Now I understand your previous question. Ok, if a woman is barren and cannot have children, does that mean that her and her husband cannot have sexual relations? There are examples in scripture where women who are barren have relations with their husbands even though they cannot have children and it's never forbidden in The Bible. I don't think that the death of the sperm when a man and woman have relations during a time that she cannot have children is killing the sperm on purpose. The death of the sperm is the "result" of their having sex when she cannot produce chidren (just like when men have relations with barren women). |
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Post by alfie on May 30, 2009 9:39:58 GMT -5
I have a question.
If you only had oral sex are you still considered to be a virgin?
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Post by Cepha on May 30, 2009 9:56:20 GMT -5
I have a question. If you only had oral sex are you still considered to be a virgin? Technically, yes. |
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Post by alfie on May 30, 2009 10:05:43 GMT -5
The church may teach against it...but i still take them. I actually never learned that when i was in cyo or from anyone at the church i learned that on here... But i have a question... my obgyn is in a st. elizabeth hospital and they prescribe it to me. Maybe they are not totally affiliated with the hospital, but they only deliver babies at st. e's. I thought that any Church run hospital doesn't allow any kind of birth control or anti-Church type practices. Are you sure it's an RCC hospital? Not Episcopalian/Anglican? They look (like their churches) just like ours. I can't believe that if it's an RCC hospital, they'd allow it to happen. We have a Catholic hospital in my hometown. It does not allow abortions. However, they have a doctor who used to perform (I don't know if he still does them out of town) abortions at his office building working for them. When he did them in my city plenty of people picketed in front of his home. Knowing this mans reputation you would think a Catholic hospital would not hire him to work in their birthing center. |
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Post by Cepha on May 30, 2009 10:13:06 GMT -5
We have a Catholic hospital in my hometown. It does not allow abortions. However, they have a doctor who used to perform (I don't know if he still does them out of town) abortions at his office building working for them. When he did them in my city plenty of people picketed in front of his home. Knowing this mans reputation you would think a Catholic hospital would not hire him to work in their birthing center. Well, one would have to assume that he's stopped performing them period if he's working in a Catholic hospital. People change. The Church gives repentant people chances eternally. Remember Roe from Roe V. Wade? She was the woman who wanted the abortion. Now, she's a Catholic who fights against abortion. Remember Paul? He used to kill Jews, then became Christianity's defender. Remember Rome? They were once Christianity's greatest persecutor and now is it's greatest defender. God uses men who used to be against Him to serve Him.  |
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What is your fixation with the Catholic Church' Sex Scandals.......? 
