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Post by alfie on Jun 12, 2009 12:33:31 GMT -5
The city I live in has one Russian Orthodox Church, one Serbian Orthodox Church and one Greek Orthodox Church. Why not just call them the Orthodox Church? Those are just "ethnic" Churches. A Russian Orthodox Church is a Orthodox parish that was started by Russians or whatever. However, a Russian Orthodox Church does not necessary mean that it's congregation are 100% Russians. I too go to a Russian Orthodox Church, but we have many converts. The names above are there just there to preserve the ethnic culture of a group of Eastern Orthodox Christians, but we are open to all! We all share in the same faith. A Russian Orthodox Church does teach a doctrine that contradicts what a Serbian Orthodox Church teach. Though we all preserve our various culture, we all share in the faith. I can go to a Greek Orthodox Church and partake of the Holy Eucharist and so forth. Why? Because we all share in the same faith. Understand now? There exist various names of my Apostolic Church, but we all are one, unlike you guys. In IC.XC, Ramon But Ramon these Orthodox churches are within four blocks of each other |
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Post by Ramon on Jun 12, 2009 12:36:32 GMT -5
Those are just "ethnic" Churches. A Russian Orthodox Church is a Orthodox parish that was started by Russians or whatever. However, a Russian Orthodox Church does not necessary mean that it's congregation are 100% Russians. I too go to a Russian Orthodox Church, but we have many converts. The names above are there just there to preserve the ethnic culture of a group of Eastern Orthodox Christians, but we are open to all! We all share in the same faith. A Russian Orthodox Church does teach a doctrine that contradicts what a Serbian Orthodox Church teach. Though we all preserve our various culture, we all share in the faith. I can go to a Greek Orthodox Church and partake of the Holy Eucharist and so forth. Why? Because we all share in the same faith. Understand now? There exist various names of my Apostolic Church, but we all are one, unlike you guys. In IC.XC, Ramon But Ramon these Orthodox churches are within four blocks of each other So? What does that have to do with anything? Glory to God that there exist Orthodox Churches in your area, with a four block radius! Now go to one, and see the Apostolic Faith in its fullness. Since I live in NYC, you will find tons of Orthodox Churches (at times very close together), some highly ethnic based, other not so. Those who live in cities are lucky. You will probably find a Orthodox Church in every block or so!! ;D In IC.XC, Ramon |
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Post by Cepha on Jun 12, 2009 14:05:28 GMT -5
Hey Ramon, that encyclopedia lists 60 Orthodox denominations in the United States. What page does it say that on? Orthodox Christianity doesn't have denominations. They have "rites". |
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Post by Cepha on Jun 12, 2009 14:07:49 GMT -5
But Ramon these Orthodox churches are within four blocks of each other So? What does that have to do with anything? Glory to God that there exist Orthodox Churches in your area, with a four block radius! Now go to one, and see the Apostolic Faith in its fullness. Since I live in NYC, you will find tons of Orthodox Churches (at times very close together), some highly ethnic based, other not so. Those who live in cities are lucky. You will probably find a Orthodox Church in every block or so!! ;D In IC.XC, Ramon And all of them will be teaching the same thing! ;D If I were dieing and there was no Roman Catholic Priest around to hear my confession and give me my last rites, I could request an Orthodox Priest and he would grant me a "valid" absolution of my sins as could Ramon do with a Roman Catholic Priest. |
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Post by Cepha on Jun 12, 2009 14:09:28 GMT -5
That Encyclopedia also says there are 242 different Catholuic denominations. There's no such thing as "universal denominations" Alfie. The very term is an oxymoron. There are universal "rites", but not denominations.  |
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Post by Cepha on Jun 12, 2009 14:19:52 GMT -5
We protestants have the same dogma in common but different doctrine. So what? On the other hand if a relative of mine decided to convert to Catholicism it would grieve and sadden me terribly. No you don't. All Protestants may share "some" beliefs in common, but overall, every Protestant Church, have different dogmas and practices. Each Protestant Church interpret Scriptures differently. You all are not "one", but "many" with some sharable beliefs. On the other, The Church is the Apostolic Era was One Faith, One Spirit, and One Baptism as Saint Paul wrote. Christ' promise in Matthew 16:18 teflies that the Church will always be One, not many. Christ's has one flock, not many (John 10:16). He leads one flock. By your standards, Christ is leading many flocks. Every sheep is going to different direction, not following Christ. For Protestants, unity is a ugly word. That is why the Methodists Church, a Church started by a man, is not the Apostolic Church started by Christ and preserve by the Holy Apostles. You and other Protestants do not follow in the footsteps of Christ, the Holy Apostles, there Holy Successors (2 Tim 2:2), the God-bearing Fathers/Mothers, and the Seven Holy Ecumenical Councils, while the Holy Eastern Orthodox Catholic Church has since 33AD. By the way, if you or any of your family members come to there senses and join the Apostolic Church of East, I will be glad. A lost sheep has found it's way to the Apostolic Church! AMEN! PRAISE THE LORD! I see this out of love. I love you Protestants, but I will be filled with joy if of you and others convert to Eastern Christianity. In IC.XC, Ramon Think about it. If it were true what Alfie believes, then they'd have just "one" church with only one leader who ran all the churches from one place. Let's see what The Bible has to say about this... Divisions in the Church
1st Corinthians 10I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought.
11My brothers, some from Chloe's household have informed me that there are quarrels among you.
12What I mean is this: One of you says, "I follow Paul"; another, "I follow Apollos"; another, "I follow Cephas"; still another, "I follow Christ."
13Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Were you baptized into the name of Paul?
14I am thankful that I did not baptize any of you except Crispus and Gaius,
15so no one can say that you were baptized into my name.
16(Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas; beyond that, I don't remember if I baptized anyone else.)
17For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel—not with words of human wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.Now, what religious movement does that sound like?  |
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Post by Cepha on Jun 12, 2009 14:24:26 GMT -5
The CC has replaced the true Gospel with "smells and bells". The Jews also had "smells and bells" and God told them their hearts were far away from Him. No where in the Bible does Jesus call Mary His mother it is always woman. Ahhh! Manna from Anti-Catholics! You have no idea what door you just opened up! LOL! That's right! Jesus always calls Mary "woman"! Who else is referred to as "woman"? The "woman" who gave birth to Jesus in Revelation 12! She too isn't given a name in that scripture! Who else? The "woman" in Genesis 3:15! And what did God say about her? That her offspring would crush the serpents head! And who did that? Jesus Christ! And who was Jesus Christ's mother? Mary! ;D |
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Post by Cepha on Jun 12, 2009 14:28:55 GMT -5
With all sharing the same faith! LOL! Find one Canonical Orthodox Church that does not teach what another canonical Orthodox Church profess and preach. Go ahead. I challenge you. Here is a list of canonical Orthodox Churches: orthodoxyinamerica.org/Unlike you Protestants, we share in the same faith. In IC.XC, Ramon The city I live in has one Russian Orthodox Church, one Serbian Orthodox Church and one Greek Orthodox Church. Why not just call them the Orthodox Church? Again Alfie, those are different "rites" of Orthodox Christianity. They all have Apostolic Succession (meaning that they can all be traced to one of The 12 Apostles directly historically speaking). That's different from Protestantism who's churches have not been founded by any of The 12 Apostles, but by various men throughout history.  |
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Post by Cepha on Jun 12, 2009 14:32:45 GMT -5
The city I live in has one Russian Orthodox Church, one Serbian Orthodox Church and one Greek Orthodox Church. Why not just call them the Orthodox Church? Those are just "ethnic" Churches. A Russian Orthodox Church is a Orthodox parish that was started by Russians or whatever. However, a Russian Orthodox Church does not necessary mean that it's congregation are 100% Russians. I too go to a Russian Orthodox Church, but we have many converts. The names above are there just there to preserve the ethnic culture of a group of Eastern Orthodox Christians, but we are open to all! We all share in the same faith. A Russian Orthodox Church does teach a doctrine that contradicts what a Serbian Orthodox Church teach. Though we all preserve our various culture, we all share in the faith. I can go to a Greek Orthodox Church and partake of the Holy Eucharist and so forth. Why? Because we all share in the same faith. Parishes with ethnic designations may employ languages other than English in worship to a greater or lesser degree, or may favor music of one or another national traditions, but the faith is one and the same. Understand now? There exist various names of my Apostolic Church, but we all are one, unlike you guys. In IC.XC, Ramon Amen to that. When we go by Orthodox Churches, we genuflect (make the sign of the cross) in front of them too for they too have the "real presence" of Christ in their Churches. |
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Post by Cepha on Jun 12, 2009 14:34:42 GMT -5
The CC has replaced the true Gospel with "smells and bells". The Jews also had "smells and bells" and God told them their hearts were far away from Him. No where in the Bible does Jesus call Mary His mother it is always woman. Im sorry but are you dening that Mary is Jesus's mother? That is an excellent question that I didnt' even notice CC! ;D What's up with that Alfie? Are you saying that just because in The Bible, Jesus never calls her "mom", she's not His mother? What is it exactly that you're trying to say with pointing that out? |
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Post by Cepha on Jun 12, 2009 14:41:43 GMT -5
What are the protestant "dogmas"? Please list or give me a link where they are listed. What is the difference between "dogma" and "doctrine" and why do you think that it doesn't matter if people have different (contradictory) doctrine? Let's say one protestant church(Methodist) does not believe that the Eucharist is really the body and blood of our Lord. Then another one(Anglican) believes that it is. Do you say "so what"? Are they both right? Which is right? That is simply one of the multitudinous controversies in the denominations that you say share the same "dogma". I don't know how you can say "so what" to matters of such importance. Is it because of indifference or an acquiescence to relativism? I'll guarantee you this, put two Protestants from different sects in one room and within the first 5 minutes, they'll be debating amongst themselves about doctrines. You have the King James Only ones, the all 5 Solas ones, the pick 1 out of 5 Sola ones, the Anti-Luther ones, the anti-Calvin ones, the Baptist haters, the Pentecostal haters...and it goes on and on and on. And why? Not because their bad people, but because they built their house (church) upon man (the individual pastor that started their church). And we all know what Jesus said about those who built their houses upon sand (soil=man, or what man is made of)... Matthew 7 26And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it. Now, I ask, which churches were built "after" the 1500's (that's one thousand five hundred years "after" Jesus), were built by men (pastors, etc...) and which one fell apart right after it was started as it's leaders fought amongst themselves and divided since the very beginning of it's inception "by" men? Protestantism is the one who's fall was great. Which one was built upon Peter (or rock) and never fell since it's inception by Jesus Christ and is the only one that has been around since the beginning of Christianity?  |
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Post by Cepha on Jun 12, 2009 14:46:47 GMT -5
Those are just "ethnic" Churches. A Russian Orthodox Church is a Orthodox parish that was started by Russians or whatever. However, a Russian Orthodox Church does not necessary mean that it's congregation are 100% Russians. I too go to a Russian Orthodox Church, but we have many converts. The names above are there just there to preserve the ethnic culture of a group of Eastern Orthodox Christians, but we are open to all! We all share in the same faith. A Russian Orthodox Church does teach a doctrine that contradicts what a Serbian Orthodox Church teach. Though we all preserve our various culture, we all share in the faith. I can go to a Greek Orthodox Church and partake of the Holy Eucharist and so forth. Why? Because we all share in the same faith. Understand now? There exist various names of my Apostolic Church, but we all are one, unlike you guys. In IC.XC, Ramon But Ramon these Orthodox churches are within four blocks of each other That's because some people like to hear their service in Greek, some in Albanian, some in Russian. Don't you have Protestant groups that worship in English? In Spanish? Korean? Swahili? And also, there are farrrrrr more organized Catholic Churches (including both Roman and Orthodox) than there are Protestant churches. There are blocks in my old neighborhood where they'll literally have 5 or 6 "storefront" churches all with different names and descriptions. To me, that doesn't make them wrong. It just makes them different from each other. They (those Christians "outside" of The Church) have different doctrines, but only Catholics have the most important thing in Christianity...The Eucharist along with the authority of Christ through Apostolic Succession. |
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Post by mrstain on Jun 12, 2009 15:23:56 GMT -5
The CC has replaced the true Gospel with "smells and bells". The Jews also had "smells and bells" and God told them their hearts were far away from Him. No where in the Bible does Jesus call Mary His mother it is always woman. I noticed that you have a quote from Martin Luther in your signature. May I ask what you think of these quote by Martin Luther? " She is rightly called not only the mother of the man, but also the Mother of God ... It is certain that Mary is the Mother of the real and true God." " It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a Virgin" " But the other conception, namely the infusion of the soul, it is piously and suitably believed, was without any sin, so that while the soul was being infused, she would at the same time be cleansed from original sin and adorned with the gifts of God to receive the holy soul thus infused. And thus, in the very moment in which she began to live, she was without all sin..." The reformers had much more love for our Mother than we often see in today's protestant milieu. Oh. Didn't John Wesley pray the rosary as well? |
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Post by Cepha on Jun 12, 2009 15:41:15 GMT -5
The CC has replaced the true Gospel with "smells and bells". The Jews also had "smells and bells" and God told them their hearts were far away from Him. No where in the Bible does Jesus call Mary His mother it is always woman. I noticed that you have a quote from Martin Luther in your signature. May I ask what you think of these quote by Martin Luther? " She is rightly called not only the mother of the man, but also the Mother of God ... It is certain that Mary is the Mother of the real and true God." " It is an article of faith that Mary is Mother of the Lord and still a Virgin" " But the other conception, namely the infusion of the soul, it is piously and suitably believed, was without any sin, so that while the soul was being infused, she would at the same time be cleansed from original sin and adorned with the gifts of God to receive the holy soul thus infused. And thus, in the very moment in which she began to live, she was without all sin..." The reformers had much more love for our Mother than we often see in today's protestant milieu. Oh. Didn't John Wesley pray the rosary as well? They didnt' start taking Mary out of the picture until 100 years "after" The Reformation attempt failed. That's about the same time that they whittled down The Holy Bible from 73 books (7, the number of God, 3 The Holy Trinity) to 66( 6  ) books. And how many number of books did they take out? The number that equals God: 7  Protestantism is Diet Christianity. Take away, take away, take away until you find the right "fit". Catholics don't have that luxury. Once you are called to universal non-denominational Christianity, that's it. You have to obey what you are told. I've never met a miserable devout Catholic. The only miserable Catholics I've met are the Cafetiria Catholics! ;D |
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Post by mrstain on Jun 12, 2009 15:47:36 GMT -5
Yeah, it does seem odd to me that they have 66 books in their bibles. You'd think that would scare the heck out of a big chunk of protestants who spend their days analyzing Revelation.
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Post by emily445455 on Jun 12, 2009 16:00:04 GMT -5
....? that's three 6's, not two....
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Post by alfie on Jun 12, 2009 18:23:33 GMT -5
Why would any spirit filled man of God want to belong to an organization like the Catholic Church That part of the question answers itself, but I'll say this: Once The Holy Spirit enters you, it leads you to where it wants you whether that be the universal Christian Church or a denominational church. Post evidence that it is The Catholic Church that came up with the number of denominations. I've never heard this to be a teaching of The Catholic Church (only of secular sources). But let's see your proof that it is The Universal Christian Church that teaches this. [ Insert Evidence Here] ;D David Barrett, et al, does indeed refer to "over 33,000 distinct denominations in 238 countries..." (Table 1-5, vol 1, page 16). World Christian Encyclopedia:" Within Christianity, he counts 33,820 denominations." Title: World Christian Encyclopedia : a comparative survey of churches and religions in the modern world Authors: David B. Barrett, George T. Kurian, Todd M. Johnson. Edition: 2nd ed. Published: Oxford ; New York : Oxford University Press, 2001. Description: 2 v. : ill., col. maps ; 32 cm. Notes: Includes bibliographical references and indexes. Contents: v. 1. The world by countries : religionists, churches, ministries v. 2. The world by segments : religions, peoples, languages, cities, topics. www.amazon.com/World-Christian-Encyclopedia-Comparative-Religionists/dp/0195103181 According to Barrett's Encyclopedia: a denomination is defined as existing within a specific country there are 33,000+ total of these "Christian denominations" in 238 total countries These 33,000 are subdivided into "6 major ecclesiastico-cultural mega-blocs", and ordering them by denomination size we have (I am rounding up or down slightly for convenience, using year 2000 figures) : Independents (about 22000) Protestants (about 9000) "Marginals" (about 1600) Orthodox (781) Roman Catholics (242) Anglicans (168) So the 33,000 number is from the total of these 6 mega-blocs: 22000 + 9000 + 1600 + 781 + 242 + 168 = 33,000+ By the way this book projects that non Catholic Christians will be the majority by 2025. |
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Jun 12, 2009 23:41:28 GMT -5
That might be true...but what does that mean? Does that prove anything... i dont think so. I feel like protestants push their views publicly more than Catholics do, thats why the numbers might be high. BUT have you ever researched the divorce stats of protestants vs. Catholics? HMM.....
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Post by Cepha on Jun 13, 2009 8:26:28 GMT -5
That part of the question answers itself, but I'll say this: Once The Holy Spirit enters you, it leads you to where it wants you whether that be the universal Christian Church or a denominational church. Post evidence that it is The Catholic Church that came up with the number of denominations. I've never heard this to be a teaching of The Catholic Church (only of secular sources). But let's see your proof that it is The Universal Christian Church that teaches this. [ Insert Evidence Here] ;D David Barrett, et al, does indeed refer to "over 33,000 distinct denominations in 238 countries..." (Table 1-5, vol 1, page 16). World Christian Encyclopedia:" Within Christianity, he counts 33,820 denominations." Title: World Christian Encyclopedia : a comparative survey of churches and religions in the modern world Authors: David B. Barrett, George T. Kurian, Todd M. Johnson. Edition: 2nd ed. Published: Oxford ; New York : Oxford University Press, 2001. Description: 2 v. : ill., col. maps ; 32 cm. Notes: Includes bibliographical references and indexes. Contents: v. 1. The world by countries : religionists, churches, ministries v. 2. The world by segments : religions, peoples, languages, cities, topics. www.amazon.com/World-Christian-Encyclopedia-Comparative-Religionists/dp/0195103181According to Barrett's Encyclopedia: a denomination is defined as existing within a specific country there are 33,000+ total of these "Christian denominations" in 238 total countries These 33,000 are subdivided into "6 major ecclesiastico-cultural mega-blocs", and ordering them by denomination size we have (I am rounding up or down slightly for convenience, using year 2000 figures) : Independents (about 22000) Protestants (about 9000) "Marginals" (about 1600) Orthodox (781) Roman Catholics (242) Anglicans (168) So the 33,000 number is from the total of these 6 mega-blocs: 22000 + 9000 + 1600 + 781 + 242 + 168 = 33,000+ By the way this book projects that non Catholic Christians will be the majority by 2025. So then, you "agree" that there are over 33,000 different denominations of Protestants? You asked for the proof, I provided it. Now, you said that The Catholic Church was "lieing" when it stated that there are 33,000 different denominations of Protestantism. Where (for the 3rd time) is your proof of that statement? I posted my proof of my statement, where is yours? (and does that mean that if Protestantism overtakes universal Christianity in 2025, that Protestants "theory" that "numbers of religion don't matter" is going to be dropped? LOL!) |
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Post by Cepha on Jun 13, 2009 8:43:31 GMT -5
Yeah, it does seem odd to me that they have 66 books in their bibles. You'd think that would scare the heck out of a big chunk of protestants who spend their days analyzing Revelation. LOL! Not that I'm some big numerology buff, but I thought they same thing. 66? Hello? Awful close to 666! Not only that, the actual number of books they had to take out (because a lot of Catholic dogma is based on those books), 7? That's like Satan slapping you directly in the face and you saying "I don't get it." |
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) books. And how many number of books did they take out? 