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Welcome
Jun 7, 2008 13:41:15 GMT -5
Post by Cepha on Jun 7, 2008 13:41:15 GMT -5
Much respect to you cephia.  And also to you TOC. |
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Welcome
Jun 7, 2008 13:45:24 GMT -5
Post by Cepha on Jun 7, 2008 13:45:24 GMT -5
Cepha, no disrespect here, but you are treating Islam as if it is a religion worth respecting. Is it just me or do you not know that Islam is in a fight to the death with Christianity? Do not be fooled Cepha, but be warned that one day there will come a holy war and Muslim will be knocking on your door (as they already are in the Phillipines, Africa etc...) and will ask you if you are a Christian or Muslim. Will you then have respect for them when they blow your head off because you claim to be Christian?? This has happened in the Phillipines, they knocked and shot a 7 month old baby and her family because they were Christians. Wake up people, I think there is a lot of sugar coating going on here.. A fight to the death? Where do you get this fear-mongering material from ? Christians and muslims can live by side by side with no problems whatsoever , as long as there is noone transgressing against the other. Unfortunately , there are some dumb muslims who do dumb stuff , but you people got dumb people as well. lol People just do dumb stuff. That does not mean your faith and mine propagates doing dumb stuff , cause that would be just.. dumb. Knuckles , you need to be aware of why muslims are fighting in certain countries. I don't know how old you are , but do you remember when the commies tried to invade afghanistan in the 80's? Muslim brothers from all over the world rushed to afghanistan to help out their afghan brothers and in the end , the commies were driven out. Now that's a classic example of what jihad is about. The same thing we see today in iraq , palestine , somalia , chechnya , afghanistan. ALL of these countries are been occupied by foreign forces. Do you STILL want to keep blaming muslims for these wars even tho these countries were invaded? Cmon. I assure you , the new world order ain't just some internet conspiracy. What we are seeing today is a battle between powerful and occult groups who want to prepare the way for the anti-christ by dominating the world , against us muslims fighting to defend ourselves and to fight for the Kingdom of God to be ruled under the reign of the messiah , prophet Jesus (peace be upon him). On which side are you on knuckles? TOC, Just as Christianity only gets known for it's fundamentalists, so does Islam. So, because people so readily believe what they see on their Television (which "tells lies to your vision" ;D ), they automatically accept this as truth. I know many good decent moral Muslims. In fact, in all my years, I've never met an actual Muslim fundamentalist or an actual Christian fundamentalist for that matter. These are a small minority in our respective faiths that get all the media attention because there are no ratings in good Christians or good Muslims. They only want to publicize the worst our respective religions have to offer. And evil has been done in the name of both of our faiths.  |
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Welcome
Jun 22, 2008 9:22:13 GMT -5
Post by teresahrc on Jun 22, 2008 9:22:13 GMT -5
oh my...do you think Muslims will like the picture of the crusader?
I have been studying Islam for 10 years preparing to live in middle east and have had many Muslim (and former Muslim) friends.
Something that I have been praying for Muslims is that God will reveal Himself more and more through visions and dreams. I've also been praying for another "Guadalupe" for the middle east. Our lady came to me in a vision (not an apparition) when I was in Istanbul (former Constantinople). I certainly wasn't expecting it, I wasn't Catholic yet and wasn't even remotely thinking about becoming Catholic.
I am also praying for a missionary renewal for Catholics in the Middle east. Yes, there may be martyrs (more martyrs that is), but isn't the purpose of the Church still missional? I don't like the attitude of saying, 'well if they are good people they will go to heaven'. Perhaps. We are not the judge, but we will be judged. Not everyone should "go" and be a missionary. (some people really shouldn't--trust me) But we can all pray, we can all love and we can all give time or money for the lost and also the suffering world.
Lord have mercy.
Teresa
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Welcome
Jun 22, 2008 9:47:34 GMT -5
Post by Cepha on Jun 22, 2008 9:47:34 GMT -5
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Welcome
Jun 24, 2008 11:23:24 GMT -5
Post by Cepha on Jun 24, 2008 11:23:24 GMT -5
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Welcome
Jun 24, 2008 11:33:36 GMT -5
Post by Cepha on Jun 24, 2008 11:33:36 GMT -5
Come back to BP bro, or are you scurred?  ? LOL Nah...just got bored over there. I'm not really into the freethinking, pot smokers. Plus, there's too much diversion over there. I don't even do MG anymore. The anti-Catholic sites won't let me anywhere near them because I wiped their boards clean. The only Catholic site I was on banned me because their moderators didn't like getting checked (but most of the posters here came over from that site telling me their going through the same issues). I'll keep it right here bro. This is where the intelligent debate is without moderation. Just look at all the anti-Catholics that came here and quit? I even ran one hardcore Catholic who was being hypocritical. He was trying to pass judgement on me until I went to the site he was from and brought back some of his hypocrasies. Owned him with the quickness! lol Over here... "Somos pocos, pero locos!" LOL! |
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Welcome
Jun 30, 2008 8:09:05 GMT -5
Post by theoriginalcall on Jun 30, 2008 8:09:05 GMT -5
Great link, alot muslims get their feathers ruffled when you post something like this, they say mohammad was later excused by allah for his sins, it seems as if everytime he did something wrong in the eyes of his followers, he came with a revelation that allah told him it was ok to do what he did. It was like if a follower came to him and said "Hey you slept with my wife" and mohammad would say uhhh hold on, run off to his cave and come back and say well allah said it was ok, he revealed it to me. lol There is no doubt that Mohammed (peace be upon him) did fight many battles , but people can be so brainwashed that they get to consider self-defense to be unacceptable when it comes to the muslims. Throughout history , many prophets of God had to rise up and fight against the opression of evil-doers who detested and actively fought the Truth of God. Prophet David (peace be upon him) fought Goliath and his army , Moses (peace be upon him) fought the midians who would kill innocent jews. When a christian hears such a thing , he'd go great lengths into justifying such struggles against evil , BUT when they'll talk about Mohammed (peace be upon him) , then you better get ready for a good portion of lies and mockery. This is hypocrisy of the worst kind. [/quote] they say mohammad was later excused by allah for his sins [/quote] What sins are you talking about? Do you have facts or only conjecture? [/quote] Hey you slept with my wife [/quote] Mohammed (peace be upon him) never slept with a woman cause it did not befit his noble character , even tho he hadn't yet recieved revelation. (Quran 9:32) Fain would they extinguish Allah's light with their mouths, but Allah will not allow but that His light should be perfected, even though the Unbelievers may detest (it). You are fighting a lost battle. |
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Welcome
Jun 30, 2008 11:12:14 GMT -5
Post by Cepha on Jun 30, 2008 11:12:14 GMT -5
Great link, alot muslims get their feathers ruffled when you post something like this, they say mohammad was later excused by allah for his sins, it seems as if everytime he did something wrong in the eyes of his followers, he came with a revelation that allah told him it was ok to do what he did. It was like if a follower came to him and said "Hey you slept with my wife" and mohammad would say uhhh hold on, run off to his cave and come back and say well allah said it was ok, he revealed it to me. lol There is no doubt that Mohammed (peace be upon him) did fight many battles , but people can be so brainwashed that they get to consider self-defense to be unacceptable when it comes to the muslims. Throughout history , many prophets of God had to rise up and fight against the opression of evil-doers who detested and actively fought the Truth of God. Prophet David (peace be upon him) fought Goliath and his army , Moses (peace be upon him) fought the midians who would kill innocent jews. When a christian hears such a thing , he'd go great lengths into justifying such struggles against evil , BUT when they'll talk about Mohammed (peace be upon him) , then you better get ready for a good portion of lies and mockery. This is hypocrisy of the worst kind. they say mohammad was later excused by allah for his sins [/quote] What sins are you talking about? Do you have facts or only conjecture? [/quote] Hey you slept with my wife [/quote] Mohammed (peace be upon him) never slept with a woman cause it did not befit his noble character , even tho he hadn't yet recieved revelation. (Quran 9:32) Fain would they extinguish Allah's light with their mouths, but Allah will not allow but that His light should be perfected, even though the Unbelievers may detest (it). You are fighting a lost battle.[/quote] Whoa! Do I sense a "debate" challenge here? Are you two ready to "get a room" and step into the ring?  |
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Welcome
Jun 30, 2008 14:20:59 GMT -5
Post by teresahrc on Jun 30, 2008 14:20:59 GMT -5
Verses from Koran:
[5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.
[4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.
[4.157] And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure.
5:72 They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers.
5:73 They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no God save the One God. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve.
[4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper.
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Welcome
Jun 30, 2008 14:42:12 GMT -5
Post by Cepha on Jun 30, 2008 14:42:12 GMT -5
Verses from Koran: [5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people. [4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper. [4.157] And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure. 5:72 They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers. 5:73 They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no God save the One God. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve. [4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper. Sounds like The Bible to me where scriptures seemingly contradict each other. Could these verses have been talking about Mohammed's exposure to the heretical Christian sects? What about the verses so ofter quoted about the "people of The Book" and of the common respect to be held for them> |
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Welcome
Jun 30, 2008 15:01:25 GMT -5
Post by teresahrc on Jun 30, 2008 15:01:25 GMT -5
The Koran's message about Christians became more harsh as Muslims began to face more opposition against them. (remember the Koran was "revealed" a little at at time)
Teresa
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Welcome
Jun 30, 2008 15:34:42 GMT -5
Post by theoriginalcall on Jun 30, 2008 15:34:42 GMT -5
Verses from Koran: [5.51] O you who believe! do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people. [4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper. [4.157] And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa son of Marium, the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so (like Isa) and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure. 5:72 They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire. For evil-doers there will be no helpers. 5:73 They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no God save the One God. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve. [4.89] They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved, so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah's way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper. Sounds like The Bible to me where scriptures seemingly contradict each other. Could these verses have been talking about Mohammed's exposure to the heretical Christian sects? What about the verses so ofter quoted about the "people of The Book" and of the common respect to be held for them> The context is important here. In a verse that says that to 'kill them wherever you find them' , is about the hostile jews who sided with the pagans. These pagans drove out the muslims from mekka only because they worshipped God and gave up the ancestral mekkan gods. The verse about not taking the jews and christians as friend , should be translated as , don't take them as allies. It takes a bit of study to figure out the Quran. It takes more than reading some article on the internet. |
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Welcome
Jun 30, 2008 15:55:00 GMT -5
Post by Cepha on Jun 30, 2008 15:55:00 GMT -5
Sounds like The Bible to me where scriptures seemingly contradict each other. Could these verses have been talking about Mohammed's exposure to the heretical Christian sects? What about the verses so ofter quoted about the "people of The Book" and of the common respect to be held for them> The context is important here. In a verse that says that to 'kill them wherever you find them' , is about the hostile jews who sided with the pagans. These pagans drove out the muslims from mekka only because they worshipped God and gave up the ancestral mekkan gods. The verse about not taking the jews and christians as friend , should be translated as , don't take them as allies. It takes a bit of study to figure out the Quran. It takes more than reading some article on the internet. Thanks for clearing that up OC. We really need to have a more open discussion here on Islam. Please feel free to post Muslim beliefs (especially the ones we have problems and difficulty understanding). Pax |
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Welcome
Jun 30, 2008 15:57:27 GMT -5
Post by Cepha on Jun 30, 2008 15:57:27 GMT -5
Is this accurate OC? ____________________________________________________ According To The Koran, Muslims, Jews And Christians Should Live In Friendship It is evident there are ample grounds for an alliance between the "People of the Book" and Muslims. This is also very evident in the Koran. In the relevant verses of the Koran, there is a significant difference between the People of the Book and the idolaters. This is especially emphasized in the area of social life. For example, it is said concerning the idolaters: "(they) are unclean, so after this year they should not come near the Masjid al-Haram (Kaaba)." (Surat at-Tawba: 28) Idolaters are people who obey no divine law, have no moral precepts and who are capable of committing every kind of degrading and perverse action without hesitation. But while they basically rely on God's revelation, the People of the Book have moral precepts and know what is lawful and what is not. For this reason, if one of the People of the Book cooks some food, it is lawful for Muslims to eat it. In the same way, permission has been given for a Muslim man to marry a woman from among the People of the Book. On this subject God commands: Today all good things have been made lawful for you. And the food of those given the Book is also lawful for you and your food is lawful for them. So are chaste women from among the believers and chaste women of those given the Book before you, once you have given them their dowries in marriage, not in fornication or taking them as lovers. But as for anyone who disbelieve, his actions will come to nothing and in the hereafter he will be among the losers. (Surat al-Mai'da: 5) These commands show that bonds of kinship may be established as a result of the marriage of a Muslim with a woman from the People of the Book, and that those on each side of the union can accept an invitation to a meal. These are the fundamentals that will ensure the establishment of equitable human relationships and a happy communal life. Since the Koran enjoins this equitable and tolerant attitude, it is unthinkable that a Muslim could take an opposing view. www.islamdenouncesterrorism.com/people_of_the_book_the_muslims.html |
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Welcome
Jun 30, 2008 16:52:25 GMT -5
Post by theoriginalcall on Jun 30, 2008 16:52:25 GMT -5
Yes cepha , most of it was accurate. Just that the food prepared by the jews/christians should be kosher. Then it's ok to eat it. Jews call their clean food kosher , we call it halal. It's all lawful food.
Jews and christians definetely are highly regarded in islam , higher than others. This is because we acknowledge the revelation given to Moses (peace be upon him) and the true prophethood of jesus (pbuh). So yea , as I have posted before , jews christians and muslims can co-exist peacefully , as long as there's no moron from either side causing trouble. ;D
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Welcome
Jun 30, 2008 17:06:19 GMT -5
Post by teresahrc on Jun 30, 2008 17:06:19 GMT -5
But Muslims can't be friends with us? I'm confused cause today I read in the Koran that Muslims shouldn't be friends with Jews or Christians. Is there another verse that overrules that one? Or do you just mean we can "co-exist" and not be friends?
Teresa
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Welcome
Jun 30, 2008 22:23:35 GMT -5
Post by Cepha on Jun 30, 2008 22:23:35 GMT -5
But Muslims can't be friends with us? I'm confused cause today I read in the Koran that Muslims shouldn't be friends with Jews or Christians. Is there another verse that overrules that one? Or do you just mean we can "co-exist" and not be friends? Teresa Teresa, That's why I said that the verses you quoted were like Christian Bible verses that some Christians used to justify Slavery and Murder. One has to take those verses in the context of the whole book. Jesus used an example where He said that it was taught for one to take and eye for an eye, but He was teaching us to turn the other cheek. Two different beliefs that contradicted each other in the same Bible. See?  |
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Welcome
Jul 1, 2008 20:12:23 GMT -5
Post by theoriginalcall on Jul 1, 2008 20:12:23 GMT -5
Once , there was a christian group that visited Mohammed (peace be upon him) to discuss about religious issues. They were honorably recieved and stayed with him for 3 days. These christians were treated with respect and courtesy cause they were not hostile. They did not aid the enemies of Mohammed (peace be upon him) nor did they fight actively against islam. Whoever is not hostile against muslims , directly or indirectly , is to be treated with respect and kindness. Whoever harms an innocent person , will be called to account by Allah. Allah does not like injustice.
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Welcome
Jul 1, 2008 20:51:57 GMT -5
Post by Cepha on Jul 1, 2008 20:51:57 GMT -5
Once , there was a christian group that visited Mohammed (peace be upon him) to discuss about religious issues. They were honorably recieved and stayed with him for 3 days. These christians were treated with respect and courtesy cause they were not hostile. They did not aid the enemies of Mohammed (peace be upon him) nor did they fight actively against islam. Whoever is not hostile against muslims , directly or indirectly , is to be treated with respect and kindness. Whoever harms an innocent person , will be called to account by Allah. Allah does not like injustice. That makes sense. Only for Christians, we have a "turn the other cheek" policy that forbids us from taking vengeance on anyone. Vengeance is God's. Does Islam preach vengeance? (not self defense, but offensive retaliation) |
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Welcome
Jul 2, 2008 18:46:41 GMT -5
Post by theoriginalcall on Jul 2, 2008 18:46:41 GMT -5
If you know that the enemy is going to attack , then the muslims can strike first , especially when it has a strategic advantage.
Concerning the 'turn the cheek' , we got that as well , but only when a minor crime is done to you. If someone throws an egg on your house , the best thing to do is forgive that act and NOT to throw an egg at his own house. Forbearance is best. But when it surpasses that degree and becomes a lot worse... Imagine you were to be a king of a mighty nation , a nation your forefathers built up with blood , sweat and tears. Then suddenly hostile forces would gather at your borders and threaten to invade your country , kill innocent people , destroy the livelihood of your people , steal your resources , and they would want to take you out so that THEY , evil people , will be in charge and gain strength to continue their plundering. What do you then do? 'Turning the other cheek' would give them green light to do anything to you , your family , your country , and your people. Would God consider self-defense as a sin? I don't imagine that. I believe that this turning the other cheek is a bit misinterpreted. You see , Jesus (pbuh) came to support the Mosaic Law but was given authority by God to reform its rulings. If some jew threw a stone at another and caused an injury , the victim would have a right to throw the stone at the guilty person: eye for an eye , tooth for a tooth. This was still the case during the time of jesus (pbuh) , but the superior teachings jesus (pbuh) taught was to forgive the guilty person and not to retaliate. We have this in islam.
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? LOL
