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Post by teresahrc on Jan 7, 2009 16:08:27 GMT -5
Watchman, this is from the Catholic Catechism. All Catholics are required to agree with it! This is part of the Catholic teaching on the resurrection:
990 The term "flesh" refers to man in his state of weakness and mortality.536 The "resurrection of the flesh" (the literal formulation of the Apostles' Creed) means not only that the immortal soul will live on after death, but that even our "mortal body" will come to life again.537
991 Belief in the resurrection of the dead has been an essential element of the Christian faith from its beginnings. "The confidence of Christians is the resurrection of the dead; believing this we live."538
How can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then Christ has not been raised; if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain. . . . But in fact Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who have fallen asleep.539......
......How do the dead rise?
997 What is "rising"? In death, the separation of the soul from the body, the human body decays and the soul goes to meet God, while awaiting its reunion with its glorified body. God, in his almighty power, will definitively grant incorruptible life to our bodies by reuniting them with our souls, through the power of Jesus' Resurrection.
998 Who will rise? All the dead will rise, "those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment."552
999 How? Christ is raised with his own body: "See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself";553 but he did not return to an earthly life. So, in him, "all of them will rise again with their own bodies which they now bear," but Christ "will change our lowly body to be like his glorious body," into a "spiritual body":554
But someone will ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body do they come?" You foolish man! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. And what you sow is not the body which is to be, but a bare kernel. . . . What is sown is perishable, what is raised is imperishable. . . . The dead will be raised imperishable. . . . For this perishable nature must put on the imperishable, and this mortal nature must put on immortality.555
As for the "Millenium" , as far as I know it is not taken as a literal thousand years, but I could be wrong. So far, this is what I found in the Catechism:
THE LAST JUDGMENT
1038 The resurrection of all the dead, "of both the just and the unjust,"623 will precede the Last Judgment. This will be "the hour when all who are in the tombs will hear [the Son of man's] voice and come forth, those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of judgment."624 Then Christ will come "in his glory, and all the angels with him. . . . Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left. . . . And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."625
1039 In the presence of Christ, who is Truth itself, the truth of each man's relationship with God will be laid bare.626 The Last Judgment will reveal even to its furthest consequences the good each person has done or failed to do during his earthly life:
All that the wicked do is recorded, and they do not know. When "our God comes, he does not keep silence.". . . he will turn towards those at his left hand: . . . "I placed my poor little ones on earth for you. I as their head was seated in heaven at the right hand of my Father - but on earth my members were suffering, my members on earth were in need. If you gave anything to my members, what you gave would reach their Head. Would that you had known that my little ones were in need when I placed them on earth for you and appointed them your stewards to bring your good works into my treasury. But you have placed nothing in their hands; therefore you have found nothing in my presence."627
1040 The Last Judgment will come when Christ returns in glory. Only the Father knows the day and the hour; only he determines the moment of its coming. Then through his Son Jesus Christ he will pronounce the final word on all history. We shall know the ultimate meaning of the whole work of creation and of the entire economy of salvation and understand the marvelous ways by which his Providence led everything towards its final end. The Last Judgment will reveal that God's justice triumphs over all the injustices committed by his creatures and that God's love is stronger than death.628
1041 The message of the Last Judgment calls men to conversion while God is still giving them "the acceptable time, . . . the day of salvation."629 It inspires a holy fear of God and commits them to the justice of the Kingdom of God. It proclaims the "blessed hope" of the Lord's return, when he will come "to be glorified in his saints, and to be marveled at in all who have believed."630
*VI. THE HOPE OF THE NEW HEAVEN AND THE NEW EARTH
1042 At the end of time, the Kingdom of God will come in its fullness. After the universal judgment, the righteous will reign for ever with Christ, glorified in body and soul. The universe itself will be renewed:
The Church . . . will receive her perfection only in the glory of heaven, when will come the time of the renewal of all things. At that time, together with the human race, the universe itself, which is so closely related to man and which attains its destiny through him, will be perfectly re-established in Christ.631
1043 Sacred Scripture calls this mysterious renewal, which will transform humanity and the world, "new heavens and a new earth."632 It will be the definitive realization of God's plan to bring under a single head "all things in [Christ], things in heaven and things on earth."633
1044 In this new universe, the heavenly Jerusalem, God will have his dwelling among men.634 "He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away."635
1045 For man, this consummation will be the final realization of the unity of the human race, which God willed from creation and of which the pilgrim Church has been "in the nature of sacrament."636 Those who are united with Christ will form the community of the redeemed, "the holy city" of God, "the Bride, the wife of the Lamb."637 She will not be wounded any longer by sin, stains, self-love, that destroy or wound the earthly community.638 The beatific vision, in which God opens himself in an inexhaustible way to the elect, will be the ever-flowing well-spring of happiness, peace, and mutual communion.
1046 For the cosmos, Revelation affirms the profound common destiny of the material world and man:
For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God . . . in hope because the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay. . . . We know that the whole creation has been groaning in travail together until now; and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.639
1047 The visible universe, then, is itself destined to be transformed, "so that the world itself, restored to its original state, facing no further obstacles, should be at the service of the just," sharing their glorification in the risen Jesus Christ.640
1048 "We know neither the moment of the consummation of the earth and of man, nor the way in which the universe will be transformed. The form of this world, distorted by sin, is passing away, and we are taught that God is preparing a new dwelling and a new earth in which righteousness dwells, in which happiness will fill and surpass all the desires of peace arising in the hearts of men."641
peace
teresa
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Post by watchman on Jan 7, 2009 16:18:00 GMT -5
watchman I am not associated with them guys any more than with you guys, however I personally do not use the fish nor have i done anything that would oppose the 2nd commandment. But that it not my question, the point is in Catholicism you have simply removed that commandment it is no longer a part of your 10 commandments at all. There is a scripture for confessing sins one to another, however to receive forgiveness you do not need a priest just a repentant heart and Christ. Matthew 1:25 And (Joseph) knew her not until she had brought forth her first born son: and he called his name Jesus.This until definitely (if not directly says) make reference to their coming together some time after Christ's birth. If you go by this theory (that Mary had to be sinless therefore immaculately concieved for Jesus to be born sin free) then you must continue the theory to extend to her parents and her parents parents and so on. The burden is on you to prove that Jesus' brothers were not born of Mary not vise versa Decent point Never said you worshiped saints, all I said is that asking them for prayer will not help you YOU GOT ME THERE. IF YOU ELABORATE A BIT, MAYBE I CAN RESPOND TO THAT. PAX.  Maybe one day |
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Post by watchman on Jan 7, 2009 16:25:55 GMT -5
Teresa, are you saying Catholics do believe in a physical resurrection, and further more have to because the catechism says there will be one? That is strange because I know for one cepha does not6 believe in it.
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Post by teresahrc on Jan 7, 2009 18:33:04 GMT -5
Well then, that's too bad for Cepha! (sorry Cepha)
Yes, Catholics definitely believe in a resurrection of the body. A physical resurrection. Why do you think we are so adamant about respecting the bodies of our "fallen asleep" brethren? Why do you think we honor the bodies of Martyrs and Saints? The Church has always believed in a bodily resurrection.
If Cepha doesn't believe that, then I kindly suggest that Cepha re-read the Catechism. (and the Bible)
teresa
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Post by watchman on Jan 7, 2009 20:57:06 GMT -5
Well then, that's too bad for Cepha! (sorry Cepha) Yes, Catholics definitely believe in a resurrection of the body. A physical resurrection. Why do you think we are so adamant about respecting the bodies of our "fallen asleep" brethren? Why do you think we honor the bodies of Martyrs and Saints? The Church has always believed in a bodily resurrection. If Cepha doesn't believe that, then I kindly suggest that Cepha re-read the Catechism. (and the Bible) teresa lol that is great, O.K. cool. So what happens after the resurrection according to Catholics if there is no Millennium? |
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Jan 7, 2009 21:15:22 GMT -5
What is a Millennium?
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Post by watchman on Jan 7, 2009 23:35:50 GMT -5
It is the 1,000 years of peace prophesied in the Old Testament that will be fulfilled after Jesus returns at the end of the Tribulation, where those that accept Jesus now will reign as kings and priest in immortal bodies. The Jews that accept Jesus as Messiah will go into this 1,000 years in mortal bodies and populate it with mortals. Satan will be bound for this time period so temptation will be deminished dramatically during this period. Life spands will go back to how they were before the flood and at the end of this time is when the wicked are raise from the dead and judged/ sent to the lake of fire. After this the righteous will spend eternity with God in New Jerusalem In short, The Millennium is a 1,000 years of peace that proceeds Christ return, and precedes Eternity in New Jerusalem. Read Revelation chapter 20 |
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Post by Cepha on Jan 8, 2009 13:06:32 GMT -5
It is the 1,000 years of peace prophesied in the Old Testament that will be fulfilled after Jesus returns at the end of the Tribulation, where those that accept Jesus now will reign as kings and priest in immortal bodies. The Jews that accept Jesus as Messiah will go into this 1,000 years in mortal bodies and populate it with mortals. Satan will be bound for this time period so temptation will be deminished dramatically during this period. Life spands will go back to how they were before the flood and at the end of this time is when the wicked are raise from the dead and judged/ sent to the lake of fire. After this the righteous will spend eternity with God in New Jerusalem In short, The Millennium is a 1,000 years of peace that proceeds Christ return, and precedes Eternity in New Jerusalem. Read Revelation chapter 20 LOL! #1. I never said I didn't believe in the physical resurrection of men. #2. That millenium, is that 1000 years God time or man time? To God, a thousand years is like a day for us. So, is the milli man's or God's time? Like when they say that The Earth was created in 7 days, I ask was that 7 man days or 7,000 God years? Which if it was true, according to the Bible, the earth is only 12,000 years old so being that it goes back historically 5,000 to Adam & Eve, add that to the 7 "days" and one comes to the magical 12,000 number. But I digress...Is this one God day? Or 1,000 man years? |
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Post by teresahrc on Jan 8, 2009 16:52:10 GMT -5
Watchman, the Catholic Church doesn't try to make up a bunch of end-times charts with graphs and calculations of how everything in the book of Revelation is going to play out. Indeed, even contemporaries of St. John were mystified as to the exact meaning of some of the book. Some parts are explained, and some are not. I think that it is wise that the Catholic Church doesn't claim to have figured out all of Revelation. I believe that some parts are still shrouded in mystery until the necessary time.
From the Catechism:
HE WILL COME AGAIN IN GLORY
Christ already reigns through the Church. . .
668 "Christ died and lived again, that he might be Lord both of the dead and of the living."549 Christ's Ascension into heaven signifies his participation, in his humanity, in God's power and authority. Jesus Christ is Lord: he possesses all power in heaven and on earth. He is "far above all rule and authority and power and dominion", for the Father "has put all things under his feet."550 Christ is Lord of the cosmos and of history. In him human history and indeed all creation are "set forth" and transcendently fulfilled.551
669 As Lord, Christ is also head of the Church, which is his Body.552 Taken up to heaven and glorified after he had thus fully accomplished his mission, Christ dwells on earth in his Church. The redemption is the source of the authority that Christ, by virtue of the Holy Spirit, exercises over the Church. "The kingdom of Christ [is] already present in mystery", "on earth, the seed and the beginning of the kingdom".553
670 Since the Ascension God's plan has entered into its fulfillment. We are already at "the last hour".554 "Already the final age of the world is with us, and the renewal of the world is irrevocably under way; it is even now anticipated in a certain real way, for the Church on earth is endowed already with a sanctity that is real but imperfect."555 Christ's kingdom already manifests its presence through the miraculous signs that attend its proclamation by the Church.556
. . .until all things are subjected to him
671 Though already present in his Church, Christ's reign is nevertheless yet to be fulfilled "with power and great glory" by the King's return to earth.557 This reign is still under attack by the evil powers, even though they have been defeated definitively by Christ's Passover.557 Until everything is subject to him, "until there be realized new heavens and a new earth in which justice dwells, the pilgrim Church, in her sacraments and institutions, which belong to this present age, carries the mark of this world which will pass, and she herself takes her place among the creatures which groan and travail yet and await the revelation of the sons of God."559 That is why Christians pray, above all in the Eucharist, to hasten Christ's return by saying to him:560 Marana tha! "Our Lord, come!"561
672 Before his Ascension Christ affirmed that the hour had not yet come for the glorious establishment of the messianic kingdom awaited by Israel562 which, according to the prophets, was to bring all men the definitive order of justice, love and peace.563 According to the Lord, the present time is the time of the Spirit and of witness, but also a time still marked by "distress" and the trial of evil which does not spare the Church564 and ushers in the struggles of the last days. It is a time of waiting and watching.565
The glorious advent of Christ, the hope of Israel
673 Since the Ascension Christ's coming in glory has been imminent,566 even though "it is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has fixed by his own authority."567. This eschatological coming could be accomplished at any moment, even if both it and the final trial that will precede it are "delayed".568
674 The glorious Messiah's coming is suspended at every moment of history until his recognition by "all Israel", for "a hardening has come upon part of Israel" in their "unbelief" toward Jesus.569 St. Peter says to the Jews of Jerusalem after Pentecost: "Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus, whom heaven must receive until the time for establishing all that God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets from of old."570 St. Paul echoes him: "For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead?"571 The "full inclusion" of the Jews in the Messiah's salvation, in the wake of "the full number of the Gentiles",572 will enable the People of God to achieve "the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ", in which "God may be all in all".573
The Church's ultimate trial
675 Before Christ's second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers.574 The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth575 will unveil the "mystery of iniquity" in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh.576
676 The Antichrist's deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment. The Church has rejected even modified forms of this falsification of the kingdom to come under the name of millenarianism,577 especially the "intrinsically perverse" political form of a secular messianism.578
677 The Church will enter the glory of the kingdom only through this final Passover, when she will follow her Lord in his death and Resurrection.579 The kingdom will be fulfilled, then, not by a historic triumph of the Church through a progressive ascendancy, but only by God's victory over the final unleashing of evil, which will cause his Bride to come down from heaven.580 God's triumph over the revolt of evil will take the form of the Last Judgment after the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world.581
* II. TO JUDGE THE LIVING AND THE DEAD
678 Following in the steps of the prophets and John the Baptist, Jesus announced the judgment of the Last Day in his preaching.582 Then will the conduct of each one and the secrets of hearts be brought to light.583 Then will the culpable unbelief that counted the offer of God's grace as nothing be condemned.584 Our attitude to our neighbor will disclose acceptance or refusal of grace and divine love.585 On the Last Day Jesus will say: "Truly I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me."586
679 Christ is Lord of eternal life. Full right to pass definitive judgment on the works and hearts of men belongs to him as redeemer of the world. He "acquired" this right by his cross. The Father has given "all judgment to the Son".587 Yet the Son did not come to judge, but to save and to give the life he has in himself.588 By rejecting grace in this life, one already judges oneself, receives according to one's works, and can even condemn oneself for all eternity by rejecting the Spirit of love.589
IN BRIEF
680 Christ the Lord already reigns through the Church, but all the things of this world are not yet subjected to him. The triumph of Christ's kingdom will not come about without one last assault by the powers of evil.
681 On Judgment Day at the end of the world, Christ will come in glory to achieve the definitive triumph of good over evil which, like the wheat and the tares, have grown up together in the course of history.
682 When he comes at the end of time to judge the living and the dead, the glorious Christ will reveal the secret disposition of hearts and will render to each man according to his works, and according to his acceptance or refusal of grace.
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Peace
teresa
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Post by teresahrc on Jan 8, 2009 16:57:23 GMT -5
I forgot the "what happens" part:
VI. THE HOPE OF THE NEW HEAVEN AND THE NEW EARTH
1042 At the end of time, the Kingdom of God will come in its fullness. After the universal judgment, the righteous will reign for ever with Christ, glorified in body and soul. The universe itself will be renewed:
The Church . . . will receive her perfection only in the glory of heaven, when will come the time of the renewal of all things. At that time, together with the human race, the universe itself, which is so closely related to man and which attains its destiny through him, will be perfectly re-established in Christ.631
1043 Sacred Scripture calls this mysterious renewal, which will transform humanity and the world, "new heavens and a new earth."632 It will be the definitive realization of God's plan to bring under a single head "all things in [Christ], things in heaven and things on earth."633
1044 In this new universe, the heavenly Jerusalem, God will have his dwelling among men.634 "He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away."635
1045 For man, this consummation will be the final realization of the unity of the human race, which God willed from creation and of which the pilgrim Church has been "in the nature of sacrament."636 Those who are united with Christ will form the community of the redeemed, "the holy city" of God, "the Bride, the wife of the Lamb."637 She will not be wounded any longer by sin, stains, self-love, that destroy or wound the earthly community.638 The beatific vision, in which God opens himself in an inexhaustible way to the elect, will be the ever-flowing well-spring of happiness, peace, and mutual communion.
1046 For the cosmos, Revelation affirms the profound common destiny of the material world and man:
For the creation waits with eager longing for the revealing of the sons of God . . . in hope because the creation itself will be set free from its bondage to decay. . . . We know that the whole creation has been groaning in travail together until now; and not only the creation, but we ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan inwardly as we wait for adoption as sons, the redemption of our bodies.639
1047 The visible universe, then, is itself destined to be transformed, "so that the world itself, restored to its original state, facing no further obstacles, should be at the service of the just," sharing their glorification in the risen Jesus Christ.640
1048 "We know neither the moment of the consummation of the earth and of man, nor the way in which the universe will be transformed. The form of this world, distorted by sin, is passing away, and we are taught that God is preparing a new dwelling and a new earth in which righteousness dwells, in which happiness will fill and surpass all the desires of peace arising in the hearts of men."641
1049 "Far from diminishing our concern to develop this earth, the expectancy of a new earth should spur us on, for it is here that the body of a new human family grows, foreshadowing in some way the age which is to come. That is why, although we must be careful to distinguish earthly progress clearly from the increase of the kingdom of Christ, such progress is of vital concern to the kingdom of God, insofar as it can contribute to the better ordering of human society."642
1050 "When we have spread on earth the fruits of our nature and our enterprise . . . according to the command of the Lord and in his Spirit, we will find them once again, cleansed this time from the stain of sin, illuminated and transfigured, when Christ presents to his Father an eternal and universal kingdom."643 God will then be "all in all" in eternal life:644
True and subsistent life consists in this: the Father, through the Son and in the Holy Spirit, pouring out his heavenly gifts on all things without exception. Thanks to his mercy, we too, men that we are, have received the inalienable promise of eternal life.645
peace
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Post by watchman on Jan 8, 2009 16:59:07 GMT -5
It is the 1,000 years of peace prophesied in the Old Testament that will be fulfilled after Jesus returns at the end of the Tribulation, where those that accept Jesus now will reign as kings and priest in immortal bodies. The Jews that accept Jesus as Messiah will go into this 1,000 years in mortal bodies and populate it with mortals. Satan will be bound for this time period so temptation will be deminished dramatically during this period. Life spands will go back to how they were before the flood and at the end of this time is when the wicked are raise from the dead and judged/ sent to the lake of fire. After this the righteous will spend eternity with God in New Jerusalem In short, The Millennium is a 1,000 years of peace that proceeds Christ return, and precedes Eternity in New Jerusalem. Read Revelation chapter 20 LOL! #1. I never said I didn't believe in the physical resurrection of men. You have forgotten the week long debate we had about whether or not the resurrection was an actually resurrection of men in actual physical bodies or not? I took the position that people will be resurrected into physical bodies, and you took the position that they will not. Remember we were going to go through 1st Corinthians 15 verse by verse but you decided not to? |
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Post by watchman on Jan 8, 2009 17:03:37 GMT -5
It is the 1,000 years of peace prophesied in the Old Testament that will be fulfilled after Jesus returns at the end of the Tribulation, where those that accept Jesus now will reign as kings and priest in immortal bodies. The Jews that accept Jesus as Messiah will go into this 1,000 years in mortal bodies and populate it with mortals. Satan will be bound for this time period so temptation will be deminished dramatically during this period. Life spands will go back to how they were before the flood and at the end of this time is when the wicked are raise from the dead and judged/ sent to the lake of fire. After this the righteous will spend eternity with God in New Jerusalem In short, The Millennium is a 1,000 years of peace that proceeds Christ return, and precedes Eternity in New Jerusalem. Read Revelation chapter 20 #2. That millenium, is that 1000 years God time or man time? To God, a thousand years is like a day for us. So, is the milli man's or God's time? Like when they say that The Earth was created in 7 days, I ask was that 7 man days or 7,000 God years? Which if it was true, according to the Bible, the earth is only 12,000 years old so being that it goes back historically 5,000 to Adam & Eve, add that to the 7 "days" and one comes to the magical 12,000 number. But I digress...Is this one God day? Or 1,000 man years? The scripture in Peter does not change anything else written in scripture the day= thousand years equation is mans way of trying to complicate scripture. Peter was speaking about those that disbelieve Christ's return because He hasn't returned yet, he was simply stating that God is not bound by time and will indeed return as He has promised. Now that being said the 7 days of creation were literally 7 days and the Millennium is literally 1,000 years. |
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Post by watchman on Jan 8, 2009 17:08:02 GMT -5
Teresa, all that being said, it is one thing to say that you do not have it all figured out, it is quite another to disregard scripture a claim there will be no Millennium at all, seeing as most Catholics I know are Amillennialist.
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Post by teresahrc on Jan 8, 2009 17:21:14 GMT -5
Yes, but Revelation is a book of Prophesy. Even in the New Testament we see that sometimes people knew exactly what would happen (for example, where the Messiah would be born) but other times, they didn't understand the Prophesy until after it happened, or while it happened.
I don't think Rev. is meant to be taken literally, word for word.
To be honest, most Catholics are not preoccupied with "end times" anyway, because the sequence of events doesn't change how we are to live our lives. We are to live for God today and not worry about the future.
Most of the Church Fathers (but not all) were Amillennialist, so it should be no surprise that most Catholics are. The Catholic Church does not make definitive statements about every conceivable point of doctrine--
Anyway, I would like to get back to discussing the foundation of our faith. If you realize first that the Catholic Church is built on a solid foundation, then this will make more sense to you.
peace
teresa
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Post by watchman on Jan 8, 2009 17:48:40 GMT -5
Yes, but Revelation is a book of Prophesy. Even in the New Testament we see that sometimes people knew exactly what would happen (for example, where the Messiah would be born) but other times, they didn't understand the Prophesy until after it happened, or while it happened. I don't think Rev. is meant to be taken literally, word for word. To be honest, most Catholics are not preoccupied with "end times" anyway, because the sequence of events doesn't change how we are to live our lives. We are to live for God today and not worry about the future. Most of the Church Fathers (but not all) were Amillennialist, so it should be no surprise that most Catholics are. The Catholic Church does not make definitive statements about every conceivable point of doctrine-- Anyway, I would like to get back to discussing the foundation of our faith. If you realize first that the Catholic Church is built on a solid foundation, then this will make more sense to you. peace teresa Actually that is not true, most early church fathers were Historical Premillennialist. ''Historical Premillennialism: This belief was held by a large percentage of Christians "during the first three centuries of the Christian era, and is found in the works of John the Apostle, Polycarp, Papias, Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, Tertullian, Hippolytus, Methodius, Commodianus, and Lactanitus." 2 The Antichrist first appears on earth and the seven year Tribulation begins. Next comes the Rapture. Christ and his Church return to earth to rule for a Millennium. The forces of evil will be conquered. The faithful will live during this thousand years of peace in Jerusalem, while occupying spiritual bodies. After this period, all people are judged. The faithful will spend eternity on a new earth, (not in heaven).
After Christianity became the official religion of Rome in the fourth century CE, this was declared a heresy and suppressed''The original belief and teaching of the apostles as well as Paul and Jesus Himself was that of the posttrib ,premillenial return of Christ, resurrection of the just, and rapture of the living Christians. |
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Post by teresahrc on Jan 9, 2009 15:08:55 GMT -5
watchman, I can see you are really into the "end times" stuff. Honestly, I don't know much about it, and was so confused by all of the different theories when I was a Protestant that I guess I sort of lost interest in trying to figure it all out. Not that I don't think those things are important, but I tend to focus on the "here and now". That is just me. I'm sure there are plenty of other Catholics that would love to talk about the end times with you, but I'm not one of them. Sorry! (Notice how I tried to change the subject last time. hehe)
So, um...hum........
How about those Mets?
teresa
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Post by teresahrc on Jan 9, 2009 15:11:26 GMT -5
Watchman, what do you think this means:
"Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in Heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in Heaven" ?
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Post by watchman on Jan 9, 2009 16:41:20 GMT -5
Watchman, what do you think this means: "Whatever you bind on earth will be bound in Heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in Heaven" ? What do you think it means? |
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Post by Cepha on Jan 10, 2009 9:25:36 GMT -5
LOL! #1. I never said I didn't believe in the physical resurrection of men. You have forgotten the week long debate we had about whether or not the resurrection was an actually resurrection of men in actual physical bodies or not? I took the position that people will be resurrected into physical bodies, and you took the position that they will not. Remember we were going to go through 1st Corinthians 15 verse by verse but you decided not to? It totally got by me. Maybe I was in "smart donkey" mode where I sometimes say something I don't mean and then run with it. Let me see if I can find that thread. Let me see what I said. |
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Post by Cepha on Jan 10, 2009 9:54:58 GMT -5
watchman, I can see you are really into the "end times" stuff. Honestly, I don't know much about it, and was so confused by all of the different theories when I was a Protestant that I guess I sort of lost interest in trying to figure it all out. Not that I don't think those things are important, but I tend to focus on the "here and now". That is just me. I'm sure there are plenty of other Catholics that would love to talk about the end times with you, but I'm not one of them. Sorry! (Notice how I tried to change the subject last time. hehe) So, um...hum........ How about those Mets? teresa One thing that I respect about certain Protestants when it comes to these beliefs is that they have it down. They can provide a set of supporting beliefs and scriptures and theories which to me is far superior than those (both Cats & Prots) who just believe because their "church" says so. Understand? I can definitely respect why someone believes what they believe whether or not I agree or disagree with their beliefs. It certainly is refreshing to discuss things with them because they are usually very comfortable with their beliefs where those who can't explain why they believe what they believe turn into an insult machine. They can't explain their own beliefs so the resort to tearing down others as if this automatically justifies their beliefs. I don't care if a person is Muslim, Prot, Cat, Mormon...whatever. It certainly is impressive to me when a person can explain their beliefs. |
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