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Post by Cepha on Mar 25, 2008 8:52:45 GMT -5
I've noticed how some Christians completely discard Biblical teachings stating that "they don't count" today because that was then.
In other words, what they do is they justify "not" believing in a Biblical teaching because it happened in the past and claim that it is "not" releveant to Christian worship today, yet don't provide any Scriptural support for their beliefs.
Is this then a "man-made" belief and thus "not" to be believed?
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Post by redsoxfan on Mar 25, 2008 16:47:02 GMT -5
I've actually heard this from someone who doesn't want to admit that birth control is wrong. Still the truth of events doesn't change because the year does.
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Post by Cepha on Mar 25, 2008 21:05:24 GMT -5
That always put a "dog turning his head to the side and raising his ears" look on my face.  Some of The Bible is relevant today and some of it isn't? How did that come about? "Who" decided this? And who gave that person(s) the authority to "undo" Scriptural teachings? |
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Post by I.M.Apologetics on Apr 2, 2008 0:46:46 GMT -5
The teachings against homosexual acts depicted and condamned in Leviticus and Romans are outdated, they say. They were intolerant in that time in that culture, we have surpassed that, they cry out.
Fools!
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Post by Cepha on Apr 4, 2008 9:50:27 GMT -5
There's a lot.
For example, they even say that about Jesus' own words...that they don't apply anymore.
How can one call themselves a Christian, yet decide that His words are irrelevant?
(see doggy picture above)
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Post by teresahrc on Sept 16, 2008 12:36:43 GMT -5
Really, if someone takes the New Testament literally and WITHOUT the interpretaton of the Church, they are in trouble.
Actually, if you really study the New Testament without any bias, I'm sure you would be Catholic. But they have NO authority to say which things should be disregarded (i.e. women covering their heads) and which things should be kept (sabbath? 10 commandments?)
The image that comes to mind is quick-sand.
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Post by watchman on Jan 3, 2009 18:30:04 GMT -5
Really, if someone takes the New Testament literally and WITHOUT the interpretaton of the Church, they are in trouble. Actually, if you really study the New Testament without any bias, I'm sure you would be Catholic. But they have NO authority to say which things should be disregarded (i.e. women covering their heads) and which things should be kept (sabbath? 10 commandments?) The image that comes to mind is quick-sand. Which Ten Commandments should we keep God's or Catholicism's, and which Sabbath should we keep God's or Catholicism's? |
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Jan 3, 2009 19:46:15 GMT -5
There is only Gods Ten Commandments and i believe all Christians keep them.
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Post by watchman on Jan 3, 2009 19:54:59 GMT -5
There is only Gods Ten Commandments and i believe all Christians keep them. I agree with you in part. God's Ten Commandment are the only true Ten Commandments but Catholicism does have a different Ten. They changed one from Saturday to Sunday, erased another and divided a third into two as to keep Ten instead of going to nine. Sadly not all christians keep the Ten Commandments Catholic or otherwise. Can you as a Catholic quote what you know to be the Ten commandments for me please? |
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Jan 4, 2009 0:58:21 GMT -5
1. I am the LORD your God: you shall not have strange Gods before me. 2. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain. 3. Remember to keep holy the LORD'S Day. 4. Honor your father and your mother. 5. You shall not kill. 6. You shall not commit adultery. 7. You shall not steal. 8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. 9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife. 10. You shall not covet your neighbor's goods. This is the Ten Commandments  |
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Post by watchman on Jan 4, 2009 14:27:59 GMT -5
1. I am the LORD your God: you shall not have strange Gods before me. 2. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain. 3. Remember to keep holy the LORD'S Day. 4. Honor your father and your mother. 5. You shall not kill. 6. You shall not commit adultery. 7. You shall not steal. 8. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. 9. You shall not covet your neighbor's wife. 10. You shall not covet your neighbor's goods. This is the Ten Commandments That is not God's Ten Commandments. That is Catholicism's ten commandments. You are missing the real 2nd commandment and you have split the 10th into 2 so as to keep 10 of them just as I said in my prior post. Not to mention that Catholics don't really keep the 4th Commandment, the Sabbath or ''Lords day'' is Saturday not Sunday. The true Ten Commandments are these. 1. I am the LORD your God: you shall not have other Gods before me. 2. You shall not make any grave image. 3. You shall not take the name of the LORD your God in vain. 4. You shall remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy 5. Honor your father and your mother. 6. You shall not kill. 7. You shall not commit adultery. 8. You shall not steal. 9. You shall not bear false witness. 10 You shall not covet. |
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Jan 4, 2009 15:29:52 GMT -5
Catholics have mass on Saterday along with every day of the week...protestants do not. I would have to say that the Catholic Church is the most Holy and dedicated to Christ.
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Post by watchman on Jan 4, 2009 16:40:42 GMT -5
Catholics have mass on Saterday along with every day of the week...protestants do not. I would have to say that the Catholic Church is the most Holy and dedicated to Christ. That is good you fell that way (by the way I am not protestant) Can you explain why the Ten Commandment were changed? And do the Catholics honor the true Sabbath? or do they just have a Saturday Mass? |
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Jan 4, 2009 23:30:04 GMT -5
Well, you know(im sure) that we have mass on sundays like every other Christian church. About the Ten Commandments, im not a theologion but im sure i can find some literature. Catholics do honor the Sabbath, like i said...we honor Jesus everyday and especially the Sabbath.  What denomination are you then? Or what is the name of the church you attend on sundays? You might like that one better... |
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Post by watchman on Jan 5, 2009 11:06:31 GMT -5
Well, you know(im sure) that we have mass on sundays like every other Christian church. About the Ten Commandments, im not a theologion but im sure i can find some literature. Catholics do honor the Sabbath, like i said...we honor Jesus everyday and especially the Sabbath. What denomination are you then? Or what is the name of the church you attend on sundays? You might like that one better... I do attend a church and I have fellowship with them and the pastor is a good man, however I like you believe Protestantism has failed, the difference between us is I do not Catholicism is the answer now or ever. I think the reformation was needed yet it did not accomplish what is could have. I believe Catholicism is unified but they are unified in false beliefs and false doctrines. While protestantism is fractured and they are fractured because of many false beliefs and false doctrines. The answer is not a denomination or church or religious system. The answer is Christ. |
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Post by Cepha on Jan 5, 2009 12:27:28 GMT -5
Well, you know(im sure) that we have mass on sundays like every other Christian church. About the Ten Commandments, im not a theologion but im sure i can find some literature. Catholics do honor the Sabbath, like i said...we honor Jesus everyday and especially the Sabbath. What denomination are you then? Or what is the name of the church you attend on sundays? You might like that one better... I do attend a church and I have fellowship with them and the pastor is a good man, however I like you believe Protestantism has failed, the difference between us is I do not Catholicism is the answer now or ever. I think the reformation was needed yet it did not accomplish what is could have. I believe Catholicism is unified but they are unified in false beliefs and false doctrines. While protestantism is fractured and they are fractured because of many false beliefs and false doctrines. The answer is not a denomination or church or religious system. The answer is Christ. Well said... Which beliefs of ours do you believe are false? |
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Post by watchman on Jan 5, 2009 15:00:43 GMT -5
I do attend a church and I have fellowship with them and the pastor is a good man, however I like you believe Protestantism has failed, the difference between us is I do not Catholicism is the answer now or ever. I think the reformation was needed yet it did not accomplish what is could have. I believe Catholicism is unified but they are unified in false beliefs and false doctrines. While protestantism is fractured and they are fractured because of many false beliefs and false doctrines. The answer is not a denomination or church or religious system. The answer is Christ. Well said... Which beliefs of ours do you believe are false? That the 2nd commandment is not shall shall not make any engraven images, that you need to confess to a priest rather than just to Jesus,the immaculate conception and perpetual virginity of Mary., the believe that Jesus' brother were not born of Mary, the thought that asking dead people (saints or otherwise) to pray for you is effective or any better than have a S'eance. There are many other views Catholicism has that are non biblical or even anti biblical, but those are just off the top of my head. Oh yeah and you all do not believe in an actual physical resurrection of the just or the Millennium. |
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Post by teresahrc on Jan 5, 2009 15:37:37 GMT -5
Watchman! Good to hear from you again. I like to debate with people that have intelligent things to say.
I have juxtaposed 2 of your quotes just to make a point.
You say that the answer is in Christ alone. Ok, that's true, because He said He is the "way the truth and the life".
But if Christ alone is the answer, then why do you go on about all of your various doctrinal theories as if Christ alone is not the answer?
Why, in your opinion, does it matter what someone believes about "the Millennium" or the Mother of Jesus, or those other issues?
To me, it seems like you are saying "Christ alone is the answer, but you must also be right about every Christian doctrine in the Bible, and that you must figure out on your own without the guidance of any church, even if that Church is founded by Christ".
I feel like this is the same thing that many other Non-Catholics seem to say. "Catholics are wrong, most other Christians are wrong, but I am right because I interpret the Bible right"
Basically, I'm asking how can you measure yourself by yourself? The Bible has many things in it that are hard to understand. It says so itself. (see 2 Peter)
When Catholics read the Bible, we let the Bible interpret us. We let it measure us, and we can do that because follow the sound doctrine of Apostolic Authority that was founded by Christ Himself.
I may come across as being somewhat brash, but it's because I have seen so many of my brothers and sisters live in a state of confusion because they don't know which doctrine to believe. (and myself many years ago) I have seen people blown back and forth from church to church, some even bordering on cults, but all claiming to follow Christ alone and all claiming to interpret the Bible correctly. Now, you say you are not a Protestant, but what makes your system of interpreting scripture any different from theirs?
with love
teresa
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Post by watchman on Jan 5, 2009 17:13:52 GMT -5
You do not have to be correct about every doctrine to be saved, if that were true we would all be in trouble. I was simply answering cepha's question.
Now you do not have to believe in the millennium if you are Christ's you will still partake in its blessing. I have no ability to ''interpret'' scripture I am led by the Holy Spirit into all truths and taught by God Himself. That is what separates me from the protestant system. Most protestants simply believe what their pastor tells them to and then claim the Bible says it is true when in reality they have no clue what the Bible says.
I have been accused I think by cepha before of being my own pope lol. When in reality the Holy Spirit is my ''pope'' and I believe anything He speaks into my heart and I also believe what ever is written in the scriptures.
Now I do not mind non biblical beliefs most are harmless, but anti biblical beliefs is where I must draw the line.
By the way I really enjoyed your post.
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Post by Cepha on Jan 7, 2009 12:30:34 GMT -5
watchman IT HAS VERY SPECIFIC DESCRIPTIONS OF WHAT IS "NOT" TO BE REPRODUCED. FOR EXAMPLE, WE (AND I BELIEVE YOU GUYS DO TOO) USE "JESUS FISH", RIGHT? BUT ISN'T THAT AN IMAGE OF A CREATURE IN THE SEA? DOESN'T THAT CONTRADICT 2ND COMM? NO. THE SCRIPTURE SAYS OF "ANYTHING IN THE WATERS UNDERNEATH THE EARTH". THE SEA IS ON "TOP" OF THE EARTH. IT IS TALKING ABOUT CREATURES IN WHAT'S KNOWN AS THE "INNER" EARTH (AN OLD JEWISH BELIEF). SO, IMAGES OF JESUS FISH ARE ALLOWED THEN, RIGHT? AND GOD USED IMAGES. REMEMBER THE IDOLS OF THE SERPENT THAT GOD TOLD MOSES TO MAKE? OR THE STATUES OF ANGELS ON THE ARK OF THE COVENANT? OR THE ANIMALS AND ANGELS IN THE TEMPLE? ALL IDOLS...BUT NOT CONTRADICTORY TO WHAT IS SPECIFIED IN 2ND COMMANDMENT, CORRECT? WELL, WHY THEN DID DISCIPLES CONFESS THEIR SINS TO JOHN THE BAPTIST? WHY DID JESUS GIVE THE AUTHORITY TO THE APOSTLES (AND ONLY THE APOSTLES) TO FORGIVE SINS? AND WHY DID JESUS SEND PEOPLE TO PRIESTS AFTER HE HEALED THEM TO ATONE FOR THEIR SINS? THIS IS ALL SCRIPTURAL. THOSE ARE "REASONABLE" CONCERNS, BUT THE FACT IS, THERE IS NOT BIBLICAL EVIDENCE WHATSOEVER THAT MARY EVER HAD SEXUAL RELATIONS BEFORE OR AFTER JESUS WAS BORN, WHILE THERE ARE TONS OF PROOF THAT SHE DEFINITELY REMAINED CHILDLESS AFTERWARDS. AS FOR THE IMMACULATE CONCEPTION, SCRIPTURE SUPPORTS THAT AS WELL. IF YOU TRULY JUDGE THE THE TREE BY THE FRUIT AND THE FRUIT OF MARY IS JESUS, WHAT DOES THAT MAKE THE TREE THAT BORE THAT FRUIT? REMEMBER, ALL OF JESUS' FLESH AND THE VERY BLOOD HE SHED CAME FROM MARY AND NO BIOLOGICAL MAN. HE IS 100% MARY, NOT 50% MARY/50% ?. SINCE ALL HIS FLESH WAS GIVEN TO HIM BY MARY, IT COULDN'T HAVE COME FROM A TAINTED SOURCE. WE ARE NOT "CONCEIVED" IN SIN, BUT ARE "BORN INTO" SIN. JESUS COULDN'T HAVE BEEN CREATED FROM SINFUL OR TAINTED FLESH. IF THE IMMACULATE CONCEPTION IS IMPOSSIBLE, THEN JESUS' MUST HAVE BEEN CREATED "WITH" SIN BECAUSE HE TOO WAS IMMACULATELY CONCEIVED. THAT'S VERY EASY...SHOW US WHERE ONE SCRIPTURE SAYS "MARY HAD SONS" OR "THE SONS OF MARY"? WHY IS IT THAT WHEN JESUS' BROTHERS ARE MENTIONED, THERE IS NEVER A MENTION OF MARY? THEY ARE CALLED JESUS' BROTHERS. EVEN IN SENTENCES WHERE JESUS IS CALLED MARY'S SON AND THE BROTHERS ARE MENTIONED, THE BROTHERS ARE SEPARATED FROM MARY AS HER CHILDREN. IF MARY HAD ANY SONS BESIDES JESUS, THE JEWISH LAW MANDATED THAT HER CARE BE HANDED OVER TO HIM/THEM UPON JESUS' DEATH. BECASUE SHE HAD NO SONS TO CARE FOR HER AND JOSEPH WAS OBVIOUSLY DEAD, MARY'S CARE WAS GIVEN OVER TO THE ONLY APOSTLE THAT WASN'T MARTYRED...SAINT JOHN. IF JESUS HAD BLOOD BROTHERS, HE WOULDN'T HAVE HAD TO HAD MADE THAT PROVISION FOR MARY. IT WOULD'VE BEEN INSTANTLY UNDERSTOOD THAT HIS BROTHERS/HER BIOLOGICAL SONS WOULD'VE CARED FOR HER. ALSO, THE WORD "BROTHERS" ALSO MEANS "COUSINS" IN ARAMAIC AND IT IS PROVEN THAT THOSE WHO WERE CALLED JESUS' BROTHERS WERE THE CHILDREN OF "THE OTHER MARY", MARY'S COUSIN WHO WAS ALSO AT THE CROSS WITH JESUS ALONG WITH MARY MAGDALANE (THE 3 ARE KNOWN AS THE 3 MARIES). WOW...I JUST REALIZED THAT...A TRINITY OF MARIES. WELL, THE SAINTS ARE IN HEAVEN PRAYING (REV) AND JESUS TALKED TO DEAD SAINTS DURING THE TRANSFIGURATION. THE SAINTS CERTAINLY AREN'T PRAYING TO GOD FOR THEMSELVES. THEY HAVE RECEIVED THE HIGHEST GOAL...HEAVEN. SO, THEY HAVE TO BE PRAYING FOR US. THE WORD "PRAY" SIMPLY MEANS "REQUEST". IT DOESN'T MEAN WORSHIP AND ISNT' SOME SUPERNATURAL THING. WHEN YOU GO TO COURT, ATTORNEYS USUALLY SAY "WE PRAY THAT THE COURT HERE OUR PLEA" WHICH IS SIMPLY A FORMAL REQUEST. OK, IF YOU'D LIKE, WE CAN GO THROUGH THE SCRIPTURES FOR THOSE I ANSWERED. I DON'T AUTOMATICALLY LIST THE SCRIPTURES UNLESS ASKED TO OUT OF COURTESY. YOU GOT ME THERE. IF YOU ELABORATE A BIT, MAYBE I CAN RESPOND TO THAT. PAX. |
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