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Post by Cepha on Mar 9, 2009 23:46:11 GMT -5
Is that a "biblical" belief? Or your made up belief? It is anti biblical to say that Jesus is the only way for man to be saved huh? Acts 4:12Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.Out of all the heresies Satan ever created the teaching that there is salvation outside of faith in Christ is the worse, yes you are a heretic of the worse kind, cepha. Ok, so then all those Saints that rose from their graves in Matthew 27 had faith in Christ? And anybody that died before Jesus was born? They're "not" saved? What happens to them, they go to hell, right? Or is there a "special acception" made for them making your absolute and without compromise statement that there is no salvation outside of faith in Christ false? |
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Post by Cepha on Mar 9, 2009 23:51:03 GMT -5
PS. The quote from acts that you chose states that there is no salvation in any other but Christ...not that a person "can't" be saved without Christ. When Jesus died, his "gift" was unconditional. If we have to do a "work" for that gift (having to have faith), then we are "paying" for salvation.
The Bible is clear...Jesus died for "all" man (not just for believers).
He is The Savior of "all" mankind.
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Post by teresahrc on Mar 10, 2009 14:05:29 GMT -5
I wasn't telling you to digress!
I'm saying "it is enough"
Enough slandering the Church.
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Post by Cepha on Mar 10, 2009 15:17:20 GMT -5
I wasn't telling you to digress! I'm saying "it is enough" Enough slandering the Church. Well, in that case...let me get to "work"! ;D  |
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Post by ezekiel33 on Mar 30, 2009 21:09:06 GMT -5
PS. The quote from acts that you chose states that there is no salvation in any other but Christ...not that a person "can't" be saved without Christ. When Jesus died, his "gift" was unconditional. If we have to do a "work" for that gift (having to have faith), then we are "paying" for salvation. The Bible is clear...Jesus died for "all" man (not just for believers). He is The Savior of "all" mankind. Are you a universalist? Do you believe people will get to heaven without receiving Christ as savior? Do you think all religions lead to the same god? |
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Mar 30, 2009 23:57:06 GMT -5
I believe all Christians worship the same God.
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Post by ezekiel33 on Mar 31, 2009 9:53:13 GMT -5
I believe all Christians worship the same God. Well I believe that too, but that was not my question. cepha seems to be saying all religions serve the same god, or that all people will be saved, or that there is salvation outside of Christ. I was trying to get clarification to what he meant before I made any assertions. |
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Post by Cepha on Mar 31, 2009 13:12:48 GMT -5
I believe all Christians worship the same God. Well I believe that too, but that was not my question. cepha seems to be saying all religions serve the same god, No, not all religions serve the same God. No, not all people will be saved (that include Christians that will not be saved). Yes, according to Romans 2, non-Believers who please God will be saved. I hope I've cleared it up a bit.  |
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Post by emily445455 on Mar 31, 2009 13:18:15 GMT -5
how can someone please God if they do not accept His Son?
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Post by ezekiel33 on Mar 31, 2009 15:12:42 GMT -5
how can someone please God if they do not accept His Son? Good question. cepha you have cleared up what you are saying, and I appreciate that, but I cannot agree with you completely. I do agree that all religions are not serving the same god, and that not all people will be saved, not even many that call themselves christians, however no one outside of a relationship with Christ will be saved, and Romans 2 does not indicate that they will be. |
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Post by Cepha on Mar 31, 2009 17:29:13 GMT -5
how can someone please God if they do not accept His Son? Good question. Read Romans 2. It'll tell you how a person who doesn't believe in God or in Jesus can please Him. People pleased God "before" Jesus made His sacrifice and they were saved "before" Jesus made His sacrifice. Remember when Jesus conferred with two Saints in the Transfiguration? Matter of fact Romans 2: The Jews and the Law 17Now you, if you call yourself a Jew; if you rely on the law and brag about your relationship to God; 18if you know his will and approve of what is superior because you are instructed by the law; 19if you are convinced that you are a guide for the blind, a light for those who are in the dark, 20an instructor of the foolish, a teacher of infants, because you have in the law the embodiment of knowledge and truth— 21you, then, who teach others, do you not teach yourself? You who preach against stealing, do you steal? 22You who say that people should not commit adultery, do you commit adultery? You who abhor idols, do you rob temples? 23You who brag about the law, do you dishonor God by breaking the law? 24As it is written: "God's name is blasphemed among the Gentiles because of you."
25Circumcision has value if you observe the law, but if you break the law, you have become as though you had not been circumcised. 26If those who are not circumcised keep the law's requirements, will they not be regarded as though they were circumcised? 27The one who is not circumcised physically and yet obeys the law will condemn you who, even though you have the[c] written code and circumcision, are a lawbreaker.
28A man is not a Jew if he is only one outwardly, nor is circumcision merely outward and physical. 29No, a man is a Jew if he is one inwardly; and circumcision is circumcision of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the written code. Such a man's praise is not from men, but from God.
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Post by Cepha on Mar 31, 2009 17:35:28 GMT -5
how can someone please God if they do not accept His Son? Good question. cepha you have cleared up what you are saying, and I appreciate that, but I cannot agree with you completely. I do agree that all religions are not serving the same god, and that not all people will be saved, not even many that call themselves christians, however no one outside of a relationship with Christ will be saved, and Romans 2 does not indicate that they will be. As you read Romans 2 (the part I highlighted), note that in those days, when they said Jew, they meant "believer in God" because only Jews believed in God, hence, they had The Law. When they said Gentile, they meant non-believer because Gentiles didn't believe in God (The God of Abraham, of Isaac, of Jacob). God belonged to The Jews as far as the world knew. Now, placing your mind in the mindset of a 1st Century Jewish Christian when you read this, what does it say to you? That for all the bragging a Believer can do, if they do not live The Law, they will not be justified (saved), yet the Gentile who doesn't have The Law (doesn't believe in God) will be justified if they live The Law of God that is written on everyman's heart (including atheists, Muslims, Hindus, etc...). God didn't discriminate when He wrote His Word on their hearts. This is why The Bible is such and endearing book, because when we read it, we automatically recognize it. The words are already in our hearts. So, it's familiar. Let me know what you get out of Romans 2 (the section I posted). [Also, Jesus used non-believers in examples to teach believers how to please God...for example, the story of The Good Samaritan and The Samaritan woman] |
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Post by emily445455 on Mar 31, 2009 17:36:59 GMT -5
So, according to you, verses about Jesus is the ONLY way, to be Saved you MUST be born-again....are false?
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Post by ezekiel33 on Mar 31, 2009 17:37:45 GMT -5
Sorry cepha not buying it, and Samaritan's were believers in the God of Abraham.
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Post by Cepha on Apr 8, 2009 18:16:59 GMT -5
Sorry cepha not buying it, and Samaritan's were believers in the God of Abraham. Sorry EZ, they "thought" that they were believers in the true God, but weren't...that is, according to Jesus Christ: John 4" 19 The woman said to Him, “Sir, I perceive that You are a prophet.
20 Our fathers worshiped on this mountain, and you Jews say that in Jerusalem is the place where one ought to worship.”
21 Jesus said to her, “Woman, believe Me, the hour is coming when you will neither on this mountain, nor in Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 You worship what you do not know; we know what we worship, for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. ." |
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Post by emily445455 on Apr 8, 2009 19:30:35 GMT -5
So, according to you, verses about Jesus is the ONLY way, to be Saved you MUST be born-again....are false?
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Post by Cepha on Apr 8, 2009 19:47:29 GMT -5
So, according to you, verses about Jesus is the ONLY way, to be Saved you MUST be born-again....are false? No where in the Bible does it say that "Jesus is the only way to be saved". The statement doesn't exist. |
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Post by emily445455 on Apr 8, 2009 20:43:03 GMT -5
Ok it doesn't say only...but it's the general gist of only.
John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
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Post by Cepha on Apr 8, 2009 21:06:25 GMT -5
Ok it doesn't say only...but it's the general gist of only. John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. "gisting" is dangerous...one has to create their own belief based on what they read and on how they believe the Holy Spirit interprets it "to" them. If just the words that are written are accepted on their face value, then there is no danger because we aren't adding our own perceived interpretations. And, remember (and don't ever forget this...), Before Jesus said that no one comes to the Father except through Him, Jesus said that it is God who brings people to Him so one has to FIRST be acceptable to God before they could go to Jesus (God first, Jesus 2nd). So, by the time they come to Jesus, they have already been accepted by The Father (John 6:44 comes before John 14:6). John 6:44 No man can come to me,
except the Father which hath sent me draw him:
and I will raise him up at the last day. |
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Post by emily445455 on Apr 8, 2009 21:31:33 GMT -5
I don't believe in predestination, not sure if that's what you were refering to, but it sounded like it. I believe GOd "accepts" and calls everyone.
Ok I don't gist...I know Jesus it the only way.
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