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Post by emily445455 on May 22, 2009 19:02:11 GMT -5
14 The LORD said to Abram after Lot had parted from him, "Look around from where you are, to the north and south, to the east and west. 15 All the land that you see I will give to you and your offspring forever. (Genesis 13) 13 Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac and Israel, to whom you swore by your own self: 'I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and I will give your descendants all this land I promised them, and it will be their inheritance forever.' (Exodus 32) They will no longer defile themselves with their idols and vile images or with any of their offenses, for I will save them from all their sinful backsliding, and I will cleanse them. They will be my people, and I will be their God.
24 " 'My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd. They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees. 25 They will live in the land I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where your ancestors lived. They and their children and their children's children will live there forever, and David my servant will be their prince forever. 26 I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and increase their numbers, and I will put my sanctuary among them forever. 27 My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be my people. 28 Then the nations will know that I the LORD make Israel holy, when my sanctuary is among them forever.' " (Ezekiel 37) Posted verses that actually state that God's promise to Israel is forever and not conditional. I didn't know they existed  |
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Post by teresahrc on May 22, 2009 20:13:40 GMT -5
Oh, yeah, they do, much to Cepha's dismay. My sword is slightly sharper than his.
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Post by Cepha on May 23, 2009 9:41:33 GMT -5
They are Jesus rejectors. But they are still God's chosen people. Ok, so it's "official" now...you say that Jews could reject Jesus Christ and be the only acception to the "reject Jesus or be damned" rule? They did lose the land a lonnnnng time ago. The Land was not theirs when The Romans were in charge of it and this was "after" God promised them the land. Question: Who was in charge of Israel in The New Testament? Oh, so you're only doing it for indulgences? You're bartering with God? You bless the Jews just so you can get blessed? I bless those Jews (believers or not) who are worthy of it. Will you bless and Atheist Jew? |
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Post by Cepha on May 23, 2009 9:42:59 GMT -5
They are Jesus rejectors. But they are still God's chosen people. God made a promise, He will not break it. He did not say to Abraham "this is your land, as long as you obey what I say". If He had said that, the Jew would have lost that land a looonnngggg time ago. This is not a conditional promise. I try to stick up for the Jew. God also promised to bless those that bless them and curse them that curse them. And I reallllly don't want God's curses..... There is no use talking to him. Up until the last couple of years the Catholic Church officially believed the Holy Land belonged to the RCC. This is why we had the Catholic Crusades. The RCC resents the Jews coming back to the Holy Land because they believe in a replacement theology. That's another reason the pope wants a two state solution in the Middle East. Uh, the Holy Land belonged to everybody "but" The Jews up until the late 60's when The British gave a "piece" of Israel (not all of it) back to them. That's not Catholic belief, but pure history. |
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Post by Cepha on May 23, 2009 9:46:50 GMT -5
I never claimed that it had a quote that says "Jesus is a liar". You said The Koran calls Jesus a liar. Then you tried to prove it with a ton of scriptures that differed with Christianity as your evidence, but not one said Jesus was a liar literally. That, does not prove what you said. No where in The Koran does it call Jesus a liar. So, you can't make a statement like that. You can say "The Koran is different from Christianity and has a different outlook on Who Christ was." But, in their opinion, Christians (not Jesus Christ) are the liars. They believed Jesus was truthful and holy. You misrepresent what they believe and that is totally dishonest and there can be no God in dishonesty (even if it is in an attempt to defend Jesus Christ). |
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Post by Cepha on May 23, 2009 9:47:49 GMT -5
Oh, yeah, they do, much to Cepha's dismay. My sword is slightly sharper than his. OMGosh...you and Em have no idea of what "prophecy" is being spoken of there! LOL! Yeah, sure...you're the sharpest sword in the forum T!  |
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Post by Cepha on May 23, 2009 9:50:28 GMT -5
14 The LORD said to Abram after Lot had parted from him, "Look around from where you are, to the north and south, to the east and west. 15 All the land that you see I will give to you and your offspring forever. (Genesis 13) 13 Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac and Israel, to whom you swore by your own self: 'I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and I will give your descendants all this land I promised them, and it will be their inheritance forever.' (Exodus 32) They will no longer defile themselves with their idols and vile images or with any of their offenses, for I will save them from all their sinful backsliding, and I will cleanse them. They will be my people, and I will be their God.
24 " 'My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd. They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees. 25 They will live in the land I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where your ancestors lived. They and their children and their children's children will live there forever, and David my servant will be their prince forever. 26 I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and increase their numbers, and I will put my sanctuary among them forever. 27 My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be my people. 28 Then the nations will know that I the LORD make Israel holy, when my sanctuary is among them forever.' " (Ezekiel 37) Posted verses that actually state that God's promise to Israel is forever and not conditional. I didn't know they existed Hey, Em, you do understand that Muslims are descendants of Abraham, right?  LOL! |
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Post by Cepha on May 23, 2009 9:52:07 GMT -5
Maybe we should do unto Cepha as he has done unto us. LOL Let's take a verse in the Bible and take it so literally that we refuse to listen to any other interpretation. (remember the 1 cor. 7:14 fiasco) ;D You mean, like "believe" what is actually written when it agrees with CCC Doctrine? If you did that, you wouldn't be struggling with 1 Cor 7 so much! LOL! |
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Post by Cepha on May 23, 2009 9:56:08 GMT -5
Yeah. 14 The LORD said to Abram after Lot had parted from him, "Look around from where you are, to the north and south, to the east and west. 15 All the land that you see I will give to you and your offspring forever. (Genesis 13) 13 Remember your servants Abraham, Isaac and Israel, to whom you swore by your own self: 'I will make your descendants as numerous as the stars in the sky and I will give your descendants all this land I promised them, and it will be their inheritance forever.' (Exodus 32) They will no longer defile themselves with their idols and vile images or with any of their offenses, for I will save them from all their sinful backsliding, and I will cleanse them. They will be my people, and I will be their God.
24 " 'My servant David will be king over them, and they will all have one shepherd. They will follow my laws and be careful to keep my decrees. 25 They will live in the land I gave to my servant Jacob, the land where your ancestors lived. They and their children and their children's children will live there forever, and David my servant will be their prince forever. 26 I will make a covenant of peace with them; it will be an everlasting covenant. I will establish them and increase their numbers, and I will put my sanctuary among them forever. 27 My dwelling place will be with them; I will be their God, and they will be my people. 28 Then the nations will know that I the LORD make Israel holy, when my sanctuary is among them forever.' " (Ezekiel 37) Ok, since you want to be "literal" about it when it's convenient for your beliefs..."literal" this scripture: 2 Matthew 11:20-24 “Then began He to upbraid the cities wherein most of His mighty Works were done, because they repented not:
Woe unto you, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty Works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes.
But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of Judgement, than for you.
And you, Capernaum, which are exalted unto Heaven, shall be brought down to Hell: for if the might Works, which had been done in you, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day.
But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom, in the day of Judgment, than for you.”: (I would say that The Jewish Temple being burned down in 70 A.D. in Israel and The Jews being persecuted by The Romans AFTER they did not obey The Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ could be seen as God taking vengeance on them...) Jesus Himself condemns Jews who rejected Him and stated that they too will be judged. I doubt that God would reward people who not only not accepted Him, but who outrightly deny Him. Jews cannot claim "innocence" when it comes to Judgement. They literally have The Law (and they still reject Jesus Christ as The Messiah). And, "after" God made them all those promises, He never said "Even if you reject My Son and crucify Him and condemn Him to torture, you can keep all these things." The Bible doesn't stop in the OT and The OT isn't the ultimate word in Scripture. All of God's promises are conditional. By the way, the scriptures given by Teresa are prophetic verses about Jesus Christ. David doesn't live forever, but His Seed (Jesus Christ) does live forever and Jesus is Lord of all man (not just Jews and especially Jews who reject Him). |
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Post by emily445455 on May 23, 2009 10:00:23 GMT -5
They are Jesus rejectors. But they are still God's chosen people. Ok, so it's "official" now...you say that Jews could reject Jesus Christ and be the only acception to the "reject Jesus or be damned" rule? I don't know if they go to heaven...I just know they are God's people and belong in Israel. |
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Post by emily445455 on May 23, 2009 10:02:02 GMT -5
Hey, Em, you do understand that Muslims are descendants of Abraham, right? LOL! God considers Isaac to be Abrahams only son. Genesis 22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of. Hebrews 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, |
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Post by Cepha on May 23, 2009 10:10:05 GMT -5
Ok, so it's "official" now...you say that Jews could reject Jesus Christ and be the only acception to the "reject Jesus or be damned" rule? I don't know if they go to heaven...I just know they are God's people and belong in Israel. They were God's only chosen people...now anybody who accepts Jesus Christ without having to convert to Judaism are God's Chosen. Can't have it both ways...don't believe in Jesus and still be saved? That sounds like an "acception" to me. Is that what you're saying? That Jews don't have to accept Jesus Christ and they can still be saved? |
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Post by emily445455 on May 23, 2009 10:11:14 GMT -5
Sometimes I think you don't read what I type. I said "I don't know".
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Post by Cepha on May 23, 2009 10:11:55 GMT -5
Hey, Em, you do understand that Muslims are descendants of Abraham, right? LOL! God considers Isaac to be Abrahams only son. Genesis 22:2 And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of. Hebrews 11:17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, He was Abraham's "only" son BEFORE Ishmael was born. Genesis 25:12 Now these are the records of the generations of Ishmael, Abraham's son, whom Hagar the Egyptian, Sarah's maid, bore to Abraham; So, Muslims too are the descendants of Abraham. |
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Post by Cepha on May 23, 2009 10:12:34 GMT -5
Sometimes I think you don't read what I type. I said "I don't know". Now I read it. |
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Post by emily445455 on May 23, 2009 10:16:14 GMT -5
He was Abraham's "only" son BEFORE Ishmael was born. Genesis 25:12 Now these are the records of the generations of Ishmael, Abraham's son, whom Hagar the Egyptian, Sarah's maid, bore to Abraham; So, Muslims too are the descendants of Abraham. Muslims are the descendants of Abraham and Ishmael, yes. But the promise goes through Isaac, since God considers him to be Abraham's only son. And states that the promise is through Isaac...not Ishmael. |
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Post by Cepha on May 23, 2009 10:20:00 GMT -5
He was Abraham's "only" son BEFORE Ishmael was born. Genesis 25:12 Now these are the records of the generations of Ishmael, Abraham's son, whom Hagar the Egyptian, Sarah's maid, bore to Abraham; So, Muslims too are the descendants of Abraham. Muslims are the descendants of Abraham and Ishmael, yes. But the promise goes through Isaac, since God considers him to be Abraham's only son. And states that the promise is through Isaac...not Ishmael. I agree. So, only pure blooded Jews (not European converts) have the right to that land, right? And don't forget what God says about Ishmael. That no one is to harm him either on that same land. The Jewish descendants are breaking God's word when they harm Palestinians (Arabs) when they harm them. And...how is it that Rome came to own the land when Jesus came to be born if it was promised to them forever? That is proof that they lost the land before Jesus was even born. |
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Post by emily445455 on May 23, 2009 10:24:55 GMT -5
As far as I know, yes...Jews by blood have a right to that land.
Jews have been breaking God's laws wayyy before God said that about Ishmael. That's why God's promise is not conditional.
The Jews don't really care about the land. That's why they haven't had it over the course of history. They don't care...God cares, but they don't.
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Post by Cepha on May 23, 2009 10:29:13 GMT -5
As far as I know, yes...Jews by blood have a right to that land. So, the Europeans have no right to that land then, correct? How is that possible when The Jewish Nation began with Israel? How "wayyyy" is way for you? 30 years? They didn't exist before Israel (Abraham's son). I'd say, God took it back from them because just like He did with The Garden of Eden, if you aren't responsible with the blessings God gives you, you lose that blessing. So, they don't care and God cares, but, they get to keep the land and kill Ishmaels descendants? |
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Post by emily445455 on May 23, 2009 10:44:06 GMT -5
I hate it when people do that. Take each sentence, put it in a quote box and write something about it....just looks so long. Anyways....
Europeans, if they are Jewish, sure.
Abraham sinned big time, God's promise began with him.
God warned Adam and Eve what would happen if they sinned. Not so with the Jew.
The Jews get the keep the land no matter what sin they have committed. God has and is punishing them, but the land isn't part of that punishment.
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