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Post by Cepha on May 26, 2009 14:09:09 GMT -5
Never said I was infallible, nor did I say that no one else infallible, matter of fact I said just the opposite. So can in "fallible" person teach truth? Remnant? I'd say that 1.4 BILLION is more than a remnant. (Unless you mean "your" definition of true believers?) Again, if your wife is led by The Holy Spirit, why does she need you to teach her? Guide her? Confirm what The Holy Spirit tells her? Doesn't she have enough discernment for herself? Or do you have more?  So, in your opinion, Jesus' Church never made "disciples of all nations"? Do you know what a "remnant" means? It means "what's left over". In order for true believers to be "left overs", that would have to mean that Jesus' Church at one point in history literally failed. Is that what you're implying here? |
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Post by emily445455 on May 26, 2009 14:09:41 GMT -5
A list of doctrines? Pick up the Bible  and yes, as watchman said...good, faithful, Bible churches are scattered around the planet....a diamond in the rough. Hard to find, but they are there. |
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Post by Cepha on May 26, 2009 14:12:41 GMT -5
That doesnt' say they had relations. In fact, it literally says that they didn't have relations (knew her not). And after that, what does it say? "till" What does "till" mean? It literally means "before". That is, unless you accept the definition of the word as commonly accepted in the English language. What do you believe "till" means in that scripture? And, like you said, if it ain't in The Bible, it doesn't exist. No where in The Bible does it literally say "they had relations". The only mention of that is that it says "they had NO relations". ;D We already been through that. If I tell my 2 year old child that he cannot have a cookie until he finishes his dinner he at 2 years old realizes that after dinner he can have a cookie, yet you an adult supposedly intelligent person cannot understand something just as simple. If he had no relations with Marry until the baby was born if proof that he did have relations after the Child's birth. The difference with your example is that you were the one deciding that you were going to give him a cookie. You cannot with any certainty say that Mary and Joseph had relations because the Bible doesn't ever state that. You said your 2 year old could get a cookie after dinner, but you never said that he/she actually "got" the cookie, so we cannot believe that your 2 year old literally had a cookie after dinner "until" you tell us he/she did! LMCBO! So, just because you stated that your kid didn't get cookies, that doesn't say he/she actually "did" get cookies. "Until" means "before". All you literally said was that the kid would "not" get cookies BEFORE dinner. ;D |
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Post by watchman on May 26, 2009 14:15:11 GMT -5
Again, if your wife is led by The Holy Spirit, why does she need you to teach her? Guide her? Confirm what The Holy Spirit tells her? Doesn't she have enough discernment for herself? Or do you have more? She has every bit as much discernment as I maybe more, however God has set an order within the family to which we both must follow. |
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Post by watchman on May 26, 2009 14:16:00 GMT -5
Never said I was infallible, nor did I say that no one else infallible, matter of fact I said just the opposite. So can in "fallible" person teach truth? All men are fallible. So answer your own question can fallible men teach truth? |
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Post by Cepha on May 26, 2009 14:16:15 GMT -5
A list of doctrines? Pick up the Bible and yes, as watchman said...good, faithful, Bible churches are scattered around the planet....a diamond in the rough. Hard to find, but they are there. Wow...sorry to hear you believe Jesus' true Church is so hard to find. I believe it's easy to find...for believers.  |
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Post by Cepha on May 26, 2009 14:16:54 GMT -5
Again, if your wife is led by The Holy Spirit, why does she need you to teach her? Guide her? Confirm what The Holy Spirit tells her? Doesn't she have enough discernment for herself? Or do you have more? She has every bit as much discernment as I maybe more, however God has set an order within the family to which we both must follow. Ohhh...so you're both equally discerned, but only you can "guide" her? Right? Where is that in The Bible? |
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Post by Cepha on May 26, 2009 14:17:56 GMT -5
So can in "fallible" person teach truth? All men are fallible. So answer your own question can fallible men teach truth? Caught! LOL! (I'll give you a day or two to figure out what I just manipulated you into saying!) |
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Post by watchman on May 26, 2009 14:19:58 GMT -5
So, in your opinion, Jesus' Church never made "disciples of all nations"? Do you know what a "remnant" means? It means "what's left over". In order for true believers to be "left overs", that would have to mean that Jesus' Church at one point in history literally failed. Is that what you're implying here?
/ˈrɛmnənt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [rem-nuhnt] Show IPA
–noun
1. a remaining, usually small part, quantity, number, or the like.
2. a fragment or scrap.
3. a small, unsold or unused piece of cloth, lace, etc., as at the end of a bolt.
4. a trace; vestige: remnants of former greatness.The remnant is the small portion of christiandom that actually are serving Christ as we should. This does not mean Jesus failed. He knew only a few would find the straight way and or narrow path. Matthew7
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. |
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Post by teresahrc on May 26, 2009 14:20:57 GMT -5
You are totally leaning on your own (human) understanding.
What, is the "plain meaning" of this until:
36David himself, speaking by the Holy Spirit, declared:
" 'The Lord said to my Lord:
"Sit at my right hand
until I put your enemies
under your feet."
Watchman, if we applied the same logic you gave about cookies, then aren't you saying that Jesus only sits at the Father's right hand until His enemies are under His feet(then what? Is he removed from the Father's right hand after that?)
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Post by watchman on May 26, 2009 14:22:56 GMT -5
She has every bit as much discernment as I maybe more, however God has set an order within the family to which we both must follow. Ohhh...so you're both equally discerned, but only you can "guide" her? Right? Where is that in The Bible?
22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. |
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Post by watchman on May 26, 2009 14:24:31 GMT -5
You are totally leaning on your own (human) understanding. What, is the "plain meaning" of this until: 36David himself, speaking by the Holy Spirit, declared: " 'The Lord said to my Lord: "Sit at my right hand until I put your enemies under your feet." Watchman, if we applied the same logic you gave about cookies, then aren't you saying that Jesus only sits at the Father's right hand until His enemies are under His feet(then what? Is he removed from the Father's right hand after that?) At the point that His enemies are under His feet then He will stand and rule. He will no longer be sitting, and waiting. |
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Post by teresahrc on May 26, 2009 14:29:45 GMT -5
Very true.
He has also set an order within the Church, but according to you that is impossible to follow because the Church is scattered.
16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector. (Matthew 18)
You are right, women are supposed to submit to their husbands:
34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
You know what that verse also says? They are to be silent. ALL THE TIME. Because the Church isn't a place, it is just a scattered remnant of true believers. So as long as women are part of the remnant, they must always be silent. Thank goodness we are allowed to type!!
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Post by teresahrc on May 26, 2009 14:32:44 GMT -5
Good try! But the Bible says that when we enter Heaven, we enter God's rest.
8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for those who enter God's rest also rest from their own work, just as God did from his. (Hebrews 4)
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Post by teresahrc on May 26, 2009 14:39:14 GMT -5
So, the doctrines in the Bible are listed? Where at?
(they aren't of course)
If the Bible explained it's doctrines (which you claim) Then why do protestants sit through 30-45 minute long sermons that are totally about explaining scripture? Why don't protestant Churches just read the Bible word-for-word instead? No protestant should need a sermon if they have the Bible, right?
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Post by teresahrc on May 26, 2009 14:42:18 GMT -5
What about this "until"?
e] 15 I am with you and will watch over you wherever you go, and I will bring you back to this land. I will not leave you until I have done what I have promised you."
(the Lord to Jacob, Genesis 28)
So, according to the cookie theory, after God did everything He promised to Jacob, He abandoned him?
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Post by watchman on May 26, 2009 14:46:00 GMT -5
Good try! But the Bible says that when we enter Heaven, we enter God's rest. 8 For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken later about another day. 9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for those who enter God's rest also rest from their own work, just as God did from his. (Hebrews 4) We do not enter Heaven at all. Did you mean New Jerusalem? Jesus does stand and rule through out the Millennium. |
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Post by watchman on May 26, 2009 14:49:29 GMT -5
So, the doctrines in the Bible are listed? Where at? (they aren't of course) If the Bible explained it's doctrines (which you claim) Then why do protestants sit through 30-45 minute long sermons that are totally about explaining scripture? Why don't protestant Churches just read the Bible word-for-word instead? No protestant should need a sermon if they have the Bible, right? Most protestant do not read their Bibles, they just suck in regurgitated revelation their pastors gets through his studies. |
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Post by teresahrc on May 26, 2009 14:49:49 GMT -5
13 -14 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
15 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and then you make that convert twice as much a child of hell as you are.
16 "Woe to you, blind guides! You say, 'If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the temple is bound by the oath.' 17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18 You also say, 'If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but whoever swears by the gift on the altar is bound by the oath.' 19 You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22 And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.
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Post by watchman on May 26, 2009 14:53:14 GMT -5
13 -14 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
15 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and then you make that convert twice as much a child of hell as you are.
16 "Woe to you, blind guides! You say, 'If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the temple is bound by the oath.' 17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18 You also say, 'If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but whoever swears by the gift on the altar is bound by the oath.' 19 You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22 And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it. This is the exact passage I would use to describe Catholicism. |
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and yes, as watchman said...good, faithful, Bible churches are scattered around the planet....a diamond in the rough. Hard to find, but they are there.