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Post by emily445455 on May 26, 2009 15:40:07 GMT -5
Wow...sorry to hear you believe Jesus' true Church is so hard to find. I believe it's easy to find...for believers.  His Church is pretty easy to find. I meant churches that teach what the BIble says are hard to fine. |
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Post by emily445455 on May 26, 2009 15:43:12 GMT -5
So, the doctrines in the Bible are listed? Where at? (they aren't of course) If the Bible explained it's doctrines (which you claim) Then why do protestants sit through 30-45 minute long sermons that are totally about explaining scripture? Why don't protestant Churches just read the Bible word-for-word instead? No protestant should need a sermon if they have the Bible, right? I wish God listed them...would be so much easier. But, he wants us to work for Him....2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. What churches should do is preach and teach the Word of God. Read it chapter by chapter, and understand it by lettering Scripture explain other scripture. Most, almost all, don't do that though...which is sad. |
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Post by Cepha on May 26, 2009 15:56:22 GMT -5
So, in your opinion, Jesus' Church never made "disciples of all nations"? Do you know what a "remnant" means? It means "what's left over". In order for true believers to be "left overs", that would have to mean that Jesus' Church at one point in history literally failed. Is that what you're implying here?
/ˈrɛmnənt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [rem-nuhnt] Show IPA
–noun
1. a remaining, usually small part, quantity, number, or the like.
2. a fragment or scrap.
3. a small, unsold or unused piece of cloth, lace, etc., as at the end of a bolt.
4. a trace; vestige: remnants of former greatness.The remnant is the small portion of christiandom that actually are serving Christ as we should. This does not mean Jesus failed. He knew only a few would find the straight way and or narrow path. Matthew7
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Yeah, but that narrow gate doesn't have a "quantity" attached to it. Fragment of what? Of how do you determine what number is a fragment? Does The Bible list the number of believers in 2009? Is it a fragment of the 2 Billion Christians? Or is the 2 Billion Christians a fragment of the 6 Billion people? And how do you determine this? By using Biblical figures? Or by your own calculations?  |
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Post by alfie on May 26, 2009 16:01:15 GMT -5
So, the doctrines in the Bible are listed? Where at? (they aren't of course) If the Bible explained it's doctrines (which you claim) Then why do protestants sit through 30-45 minute long sermons that are totally about explaining scripture? Why don't protestant Churches just read the Bible word-for-word instead? No protestant should need a sermon if they have the Bible, right? Jesus preached to the multitudes..didn't he? What about the sermon on the mount? And when he preached he often used parables to explain the Kingdom of God .When did Jesus preach doctrine to the masses? |
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Post by Cepha on May 26, 2009 16:04:08 GMT -5
Ohhh...so you're both equally discerned, but only you can "guide" her? Right? Where is that in The Bible?
22 Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.
23 For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.
24 Therefore as the church is subject unto Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in every thing. Marriage—Christ and the Church Let's visit that whole passage and see if it states what you're trying to say: Eph 5 22 Wives, submit to your own husbands, as to the Lord. 23 For the husband is head of the wife, as also Christ is head of the church; and He is the Savior of the body. 24 Therefore, just as the church is subject to Christ, so let the wives be to their own husbands in everything. Nope, don't see where it says here that you have authority over your wives "spiritual" education. I know that Priests are given that authority, but you're not a Priest, so that doesn't apply to you. It says husbands and wives (meaning matrimonial duties, not religious duties). Now, let's see where you left off...(and no wonder  ) : 25 Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ also loved the church and gave Himself for her, 26 that He might sanctify and cleanse her with the washing of water by the word, 27 that He might present her to Himself a glorious church, not having spot or wrinkle or any such thing, but that she should be holy and without blemish. So...what does the word " sanctify" mean here Watchman? |
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Post by Cepha on May 26, 2009 16:07:30 GMT -5
Very true. He has also set an order within the Church, but according to you that is impossible to follow because the Church is scattered. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector. (Matthew 18)
You are right, women are supposed to submit to their husbands:
34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
You know what that verse also says? They are to be silent. ALL THE TIME. Because the Church isn't a place, it is just a scattered remnant of true believers. So as long as women are part of the remnant, they must always be silent. Thank goodness we are allowed to type!!
Yeah! Which church is the right one since there are over 33,000 different beliefs and Paul taught us that we have to be of one theology? Name that church and I'll run to it (of course, after you prove it Biblically). ;D No more of this mysterious "floating" around church that are scattered. Those are the Jews. Jesus' Church was a well oiled machine functioning in complete harmony because it's guided by The Holy Spirit (not a fragmented religious sect with no order...God is not the author of confusion, but of order). |
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Post by Cepha on May 26, 2009 16:10:20 GMT -5
Most protestant do not read their Bibles, they just suck in regurgitated revelation their pastors gets through his studies. I have to disagree with you there. I believe Protestants read their Bibles more than Catholics. In this country in particular. |
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Post by Cepha on May 26, 2009 16:13:52 GMT -5
13 -14 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
15 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and then you make that convert twice as much a child of hell as you are.
16 "Woe to you, blind guides! You say, 'If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the temple is bound by the oath.' 17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18 You also say, 'If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but whoever swears by the gift on the altar is bound by the oath.' 19 You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22 And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.  What? Did Watchman just say what I think he said? Wow! Great "catch" Teresa.  |
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Post by Cepha on May 26, 2009 16:16:36 GMT -5
13 -14 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the door of the kingdom of heaven in people's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.
15 "Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and then you make that convert twice as much a child of hell as you are.
16 "Woe to you, blind guides! You say, 'If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but whoever swears by the gold of the temple is bound by the oath.' 17 You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18 You also say, 'If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but whoever swears by the gift on the altar is bound by the oath.' 19 You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20 Therefore, anyone who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21 And anyone who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22 And anyone who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it. This is the exact passage I would use to describe Catholicism. The only difference is, that in that passage, The Pharisees were "protesting" Jesus' Christ as Messiah...so, you have to flip it. Now, respond to that part that she highlighted...your belief completely contradicts that scripture she posted. Instead of trying to divert the focus off of the fact that she posted something that shows your belief contradicts scripture, defend your statement "against" the scripture she posted.
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Post by Cepha on May 26, 2009 16:17:22 GMT -5
Wow...sorry to hear you believe Jesus' true Church is so hard to find. I believe it's easy to find...for believers. His Church is pretty easy to find. I meant churches that teach what the BIble says are hard to fine. Maybe it's because people don't want to look at the obvious. |
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Post by alfie on May 26, 2009 16:24:28 GMT -5
Very true. He has also set an order within the Church, but according to you that is impossible to follow because the Church is scattered. 16 But if they will not listen, take one or two others along, so that 'every matter may be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.' 17 If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector. (Matthew 18)
You are right, women are supposed to submit to their husbands:
34 Women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the law says. 35 If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
You know what that verse also says? They are to be silent. ALL THE TIME. Because the Church isn't a place, it is just a scattered remnant of true believers. So as long as women are part of the remnant, they must always be silent. Thank goodness we are allowed to type!!
Yeah! Which church is the right one since there are over 33,000 different beliefs and Paul taught us that we have to be of one theology? Name that church and I'll run to it (of course, after you prove it Biblically). ;D No more of this mysterious "floating" around church that are scattered. Those are the Jews. Jesus' Church was a well oiled machine functioning in complete harmony because it's guided by The Holy Spirit (not a fragmented religious sect with no order...God is not the author of confusion, but of order). This is the most nauseating statement I have ever read. Plus, you should be sued for libel for saying that there are 33,000 protestant denominations. |
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Post by cepha on May 26, 2009 16:44:35 GMT -5
Yeah! Which church is the right one since there are over 33,000 different beliefs and Paul taught us that we have to be of one theology? Name that church and I'll run to it (of course, after you prove it Biblically). ;D No more of this mysterious "floating" around church that are scattered. Those are the Jews. Jesus' Church was a well oiled machine functioning in complete harmony because it's guided by The Holy Spirit (not a fragmented religious sect with no order...God is not the author of confusion, but of order). This is the most nauseating statement I have ever read. Plus, you should be sued for libel for saying that there are 33,000 protestant denominations. Why? If it's true, what's wrong with there being 33,000+ Protestant Denominations? And what's wrong with Jesus' Church being a well oiled machine functioning in complete harmony because it's guided by The Holy Spirit (not a fragmented religious sect with no order...God is not the author of confusion, but of order)? |
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Post by Cepha on May 26, 2009 16:54:16 GMT -5
So, the doctrines in the Bible are listed? Where at? (they aren't of course) If the Bible explained it's doctrines (which you claim) Then why do protestants sit through 30-45 minute long sermons that are totally about explaining scripture? Why don't protestant Churches just read the Bible word-for-word instead? No protestant should need a sermon if they have the Bible, right? I wish God listed them...would be so much easier. But, he wants us to work for Him....2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. What churches should do is preach and teach the Word of God. Read it chapter by chapter, and understand it by lettering Scripture explain other scripture. Most, almost all, don't do that though...which is sad. I agree with you Em. But The Catholic Church has already done that over 2,000 years. We have the most experience with The Bible. We will always be 1500 years ahead of any other Christian Church theologically. That's why you see that the longer a Christian church is in existance, the more "Catholic" it looks. With time and with study, the oldest Protestant Churches eventually become Catholic-like. Why? Because they too have been around long enough to realize that The Universal Christian Church literally has roots in Christianity. Please understand that I'm not trying to push this on you. I am merely repeating what any human being, Christian or not, can find out on their own if they study history. But again, I agree with you wholeheartedly. My Grandfather used to read The Holy Bible every night for an hour before he went to bed. He was Catholic. My Uncle read the Bible the same way. He was Pentecostal. My family is the ideal of what The Body of Christ is supposed to be regardless of denomination. My family never used Jesus Christ as a spear, but as glue.  |
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Post by emily445455 on May 26, 2009 17:04:42 GMT -5
The longer a church has been in existance doesn't necessarily mean it is doing the right thing.
Satan knows alot about the Bible too...more than I will ever know.
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Post by teresahrc on May 26, 2009 18:04:59 GMT -5
It is nauseating to think about. How can there be so many denominations, each one with different doctrines and 99% claim that they interpret the Bible correctly?
It nauseates me because I hate to be confused. I spent most of the first part of my life as a Christian trying to figure out who was right and never really knowing for sure. I never want to live in confusion again.
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Post by watchman on May 26, 2009 19:38:27 GMT -5
Most protestant do not read their Bibles, they just suck in regurgitated revelation their pastors gets through his studies. I have to disagree with you there. I believe Protestants read their Bibles more than Catholics. In this country in particular. I agree that protestants read more than catholics, but the fact remains most do not study for themselves as they should |
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Post by watchman on May 26, 2009 19:40:38 GMT -5
So...what does the word " sanctify" mean here Watchman? Your argument is not with me it is with every single person that has ever read 1st Cor 7:14. No one not one single person agrees with you. |
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Post by watchman on May 26, 2009 19:42:55 GMT -5
rem⋅nant
/ˈrɛmnənt/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [rem-nuhnt] Show IPA
–noun
1. a remaining, usually small part, quantity, number, or the like.
2. a fragment or scrap.
3. a small, unsold or unused piece of cloth, lace, etc., as at the end of a bolt.
4. a trace; vestige: remnants of former greatness.The remnant is the small portion of christiandom that actually are serving Christ as we should. This does not mean Jesus failed. He knew only a few would find the straight way and or narrow path. Matthew7
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Yeah, but that narrow gate doesn't have a "quantity" attached to it. Fragment of what? Of how do you determine what number is a fragment? Does The Bible list the number of believers in 2009? Is it a fragment of the 2 Billion Christians? Or is the 2 Billion Christians a fragment of the 6 Billion people? And how do you determine this? By using Biblical figures? Or by your own calculations? There is definitely not 2 billion true believers in the world. There may be 2 billion confessing Christian, however the remnant would be a fragment of those, a small fragment indeed no more than maybe 20% |
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Post by watchman on May 26, 2009 19:46:34 GMT -5
It is nauseating to think about. How can there be so many denominations, each one with different doctrines and 99% claim that they interpret the Bible correctly? It nauseates me because I hate to be confused. I spent most of the first part of my life as a Christian trying to figure out who was right and never really knowing for sure. I never want to live in confusion again. That is exactly why you should trust in God and God alone. Not a man made religion. |
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Post by Cepha on May 27, 2009 9:08:09 GMT -5
The longer a church has been in existance doesn't necessarily mean it is doing the right thing. Satan knows alot about the Bible too...more than I will ever know. Well then, that would totally discount the very same Church that Jesus started. If one can't use the fact that a Church can be founded physically by Jesus Christ as a testament to it's authenticity, then how does one judge a church's trustworthiness? If Christ isn't good enough as a founder, then who is? The very fact that The Catholic Church is the first Christian Church and that it was created by Jesus Christ and that it is The Church mentioned in The Holy Bible (I already listed the 4 Popes of The Catholic Church that is proven historically that are also listed in The New Testament) is (or at least, should be) evidence enough. That cannot be denied by anybody who knows actual history. Even if a person does not believe in Universal Christian Theology and chooses for themselves to be a Denominational Christian, they cannot reasonably deny history. And history matters. And whoever thinks that history "doesn't" matter, has no concept of what The Old Testament is. I understand what you are saying and I agree, but with respect to The Universal Christian Church, that does not apply. |
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