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Post by alfie on Jun 4, 2009 16:09:46 GMT -5
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Get real! There are over 100 references to" faith alone" in the New Testament. |
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Post by watchman on Jun 4, 2009 18:32:22 GMT -5
I did a lesson on Assurance of Salvation in my Discipleship. So I guess I'm faith-alone....? Maybe, I really have no idea...nor do I really care, I just believe what the Bible says. If you believe OSAS you certainly do not believe what the Bible say. You really need to learn the difference between scripture and your discipleship class. |
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Post by emily445455 on Jun 4, 2009 18:59:17 GMT -5
What we study in discipleship is based on the Bible. We study, memorize, compare, etc. Scripture.
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Post by emily445455 on Jun 4, 2009 19:00:02 GMT -5
IDK if I believe in OSAS. But I do believe that even if I wasn't baptized or if I didn't take communion or I didn't tithe, etc, I am still Saved.
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Post by watchman on Jun 4, 2009 19:26:09 GMT -5
O.K. but what if you started using drugs, sleeping around on your husband and hanging out in bars getting drunk? Then would you still be saved?
Or if you decided you didn't want to serve God anymore and complete rejected Him and starting trying to convince other not to serve Him either? Then would you still be saved?
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Post by Ramon on Jun 4, 2009 19:47:34 GMT -5
The Blood was Christ is enough for me. All the efforts I make to earn my Salvation are in vain...and rather insulting to God. I believe you are misunderstanding the situation. No one said we can earn our salvation. However, salvation is not based on grace alone through faith alone. One is not saved by faith alone, nor works alone, but rather, faith worketh together with love (Works, cf. Gal 5:6; James 2:17-24). One must continue believing and obeying Christ. Salvation is not based upon a past moment of confession, but rather it is a lifelong process. Please reread the Scriptures I gave above. In IC.XC, Ramon |
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Post by Ramon on Jun 4, 2009 19:49:28 GMT -5
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Get real! There are over 100 references to" faith alone" in the New Testament. No they not. Salvation is not based on faith alone (a late Protestant invention). It contradicts Christ, Saint Peter, Saint Paul, Saint Jude, and the other Holy Apostles teachings. There is only one time where the actual phrase "Faith alone" is used in the entire Scriptures, and it tells us that we are NOT justified by faith alone. Go figure!  Stop joking and be serious alfie!  In IC.XC, Ramon |
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Post by Ramon on Jun 4, 2009 19:52:54 GMT -5
IDK if I believe in OSAS. But I do believe that even if I wasn't baptized or if I didn't take communion or I didn't tithe, etc, I am still Saved. What if you do not endure to the end through persecution (Mt. 10:22) which will come because of godly living (2 Tim. 3:12), hold firm to the end of your life (Heb. 3:14) and remain faithful to God until our physical death (Rev. 2:10,11)? Will you still be saved? What about if you sow to the flesh (Gal. 6:8-10), what then will happen? How about you stop believing and obeying Christ after salvation? Will you still be save then? You see, Scriptures pictures Salvation as a lifelong process involving continuing faith and obedience to Christ. There is no room for OSAS in Biblical theology or Patristics theology. In IC.XC, Ramon |
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Post by Ramon on Jun 4, 2009 19:56:42 GMT -5
What we study in discipleship is based on the Bible. Actually, it is based on your interpretation of the Bible! In IC.XC, Ramon |
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Post by emily445455 on Jun 4, 2009 20:24:51 GMT -5
O.K. but what if you started using drugs, sleeping around on your husband and hanging out in bars getting drunk? Then would you still be saved? Or if you decided you didn't want to serve God anymore and complete rejected Him and starting trying to convince other not to serve Him either? Then would you still be saved? I wouldn't though because I love Christ. I guess that falls under NSNS. Ye shall know them by their fruits...if they don't have any fruits, they are probably not Saved. |
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Post by emily445455 on Jun 4, 2009 20:25:54 GMT -5
Ramon- I'm not too much into "what ifs". I love God, I accepted Christ....I am Saved, period. No matter what I do or don't do (regarding works).
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Post by Ramon on Jun 4, 2009 20:33:52 GMT -5
Ramon- I'm not too much into "what ifs". I love God, I accepted Christ....I am Saved, period. No matter what I do or don't do (regarding works). Let's go to Holy Scriptures for a second. Scripture say we MUST endure to the end through persecution (Mt. 10:22) which will come because of godly living (2 Tim. 3:12), hold firm to the end of your life (Heb. 3:14) and remain faithful to God until our physical death (Rev. 2:10,11), sow to the Spirit (Gal 6:8-10), among other things. You see, Scriptures pictures Salvation as a lifelong process involving continuing faith and obedience to Christ. Salvation is not based upon a past moment of faith Emily. It is a journey! You should be concern with the "what ifs" because a genuine Christian can fall from grace as Scriptures teaches, and if you are living in sin while still believing you are "saved", you will have a rude awakening once you stand at the throne of God on Judgment day! In IC.XC, Ramon |
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Post by Ramon on Jun 4, 2009 20:41:23 GMT -5
O.K. but what if you started using drugs, sleeping around on your husband and hanging out in bars getting drunk? Then would you still be saved? Or if you decided you didn't want to serve God anymore and complete rejected Him and starting trying to convince other not to serve Him either? Then would you still be saved? I wouldn't though because I love Christ. Well Judas was once save, love Christ, but he too fell from grace. Christ and the Holy Apostles taught us that a genuine Christian can fall from grace. Read the book of Hebrews. Saint Paul warn the Early Christians (those who were save) about falling from grace. It's all over the place in Holy Scriptures. Read John 15. We must abide in him and bring fruits. If at some point we do not, Christ warn us that He will cut us off and throw us in the fire.........This is a real danger. He was not joking, far from it! Holy Scriptures tells us that we must continue believing and obeying Christ and warns us of the possibility of losing our salvation if we stop believing and obeying Christ. It is a real danger Emily. We must remain firm in Christ, and Christ and the Holy Saints/Angels will definitely help us in our journey! Amen! In IC.XC, Ramon |
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Post by emily445455 on Jun 4, 2009 20:54:57 GMT -5
I will continually love and serve Jesus. But even if I didn't, all God sees is Jesus's blood. I am in the book of life, my name will never be erased.
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Post by teresahrc on Jun 4, 2009 21:08:06 GMT -5
Emily, I definitely think that's true (for you)
But it is a possiblity though...
2Wake up! Strengthen what remains and is about to die, for I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God. 3Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you. 4Yet you have a few people in Sardis who have not soiled their clothes. They will walk with me, dressed in white, for they are worthy. 5He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels. 6He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. (Rev. 3)
May God have mercy on us all.
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Post by emily445455 on Jun 4, 2009 21:09:39 GMT -5
It's true for whoever has accepted Christ.
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Post by teresahrc on Jun 4, 2009 21:13:20 GMT -5
The Church in Sardis accepted Christ. But Jesus told them "I have not found your deeds complete in the sight of my God..... He who overcomes.....I will never blot out his name from the book of life."
You take Revelation literally right?
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Post by Ramon on Jun 4, 2009 21:22:17 GMT -5
I will continually love and serve Jesus. But even if I didn't, all God sees is Jesus's blood. I am in the book of life, my name will never be erased.Where in Scriptures does it say that? No where. Actually, only those who overcome will not be erase in the book of life (Revelation 3:5). If you do not overcome (continue believing and obeying Christ) your name will definitely be erased. Scripture say we MUST endure to the end through persecution (Mt. 10:22) which will come because of godly living (2 Tim. 3:12), hold firm to the end of your life (Heb. 3:14) and remain faithful to God until our physical death (Rev. 2:10,11), sow to the Spirit (Gal 6:8-10), among other things. Let's see what Scriptures teaches: "It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself." (2 Tim 2:11-13). You see Emily? If you reject Christ, he will reject you. If you stop loving, believing and obeying Christ, he will reject you. Christ and the Holy Apostles taught us that a genuine Christian can fall from grace. Read the book of Hebrews. Saint Paul warn the Early Christians (those who were save) about falling from grace. It is possible for one to stop believing and obeying Christ and fall from grace. Read Scriptures. Read Hebrews 3, and the whole book of Hebrews which is full of warnings of falling from grace. You really think those warnings are not real Emily? Really? In IC.XC, Ramon |
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Post by emily445455 on Jun 4, 2009 21:28:05 GMT -5
Right, I have overcome by accepting Christ as my God and Savior.
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Post by Ramon on Jun 4, 2009 21:31:16 GMT -5
Right, I have overcome by accepting Christ as my God and Savior. But if you stop loving, believing, and obeying Christ, you will no longer be saved......that's what Scriptures teaches (and it's common sense really! ). If you reject Christ, he will reject you (2 Tim 2:11-13). "Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life." (Revelation 2:10) Salvation is not based upon a past confession of faith. Salvation as a lifelong process involving continuing faith and obedience to Christ. We must be faithful, even to the point of death. That what Christ and the Holy Apostles taught. In IC.XC, Ramon |
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