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Post by emily445455 on Jun 5, 2009 14:37:57 GMT -5
I'll wait until my husband gets home from work to get my Bible.
[that's why I need my bible]
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Post by emily445455 on Jun 5, 2009 16:58:54 GMT -5
Galatians 2:16
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
In James, "works" refer to works of love that follow belief. True love and devotion to Christ shows itself by deeds or works of love. Which is what I thought all along...if one truely is a born-again Christian, they will do works to show their love to Christ.
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Post by teresahrc on Jun 5, 2009 17:12:47 GMT -5
Of course works are works of love! Why would God want us to do works of hate? But you are just side stepping the issue, because James clearly says that a man is justified by works and not faith alone. (yes, they are works of love, but works none the less)
The verse in Galatians is talking about the law. I didn't make that up, it says so right there. We Gentiles aren't familiar with the Jewish Law, so we just assume that it is talking about all works. The works of the law (the 613 commandments of the Torah) cannot justify or save, and are not binding on Christians, esp. Gentiles.
But real "works" done in love are what is required of us.
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Post by emily445455 on Jun 5, 2009 19:33:19 GMT -5
Nothing is required for Salvation outside of acceptance of Christ. No water baptisms, no communion, no special prayers, ....just me and Jesus....that's all I need, IDC who doesn't believe me.
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Post by watchman on Jun 5, 2009 19:52:30 GMT -5
Nothing is required for Salvation outside of acceptance of Christ. No water baptisms, no communion, no special prayers, ....just me and Jesus....that's all I need, IDC who doesn't believe me. But do you care what scripture teaches? The Bible says accepting Christ is the first step not the only. We must begin to walk in the Spirit, becoming compliant to the commandments of Christ and hold on to our faith enduring until the end to receive final salvation. |
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Post by emily445455 on Jun 5, 2009 19:55:06 GMT -5
Joey, it seems a bit insulting to Christ that we have to help Him in the Salvation process.
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Post by watchman on Jun 5, 2009 20:16:00 GMT -5
Joey, it seems a bit insulting to Christ that we have to help Him in the Salvation process. Help Him what are you talking about. We have to yield to Him. If you do not believe that then that would mean the fact that Christ died on the cross would mean all men are automatically saved. The difference between you and me is you believe one moment of surrender is enough, and I believe we should remain surrendered to Christ for our whole lives, which is by the way exactly what scripture teaches. |
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Post by emily445455 on Jun 5, 2009 21:05:24 GMT -5
I was under the impression you believe that certain works are necessary to either earn or keep one's Salvation. Like water baptism, communion, saying certain prayers one hundred times a day...whatever.
I also believe in the story of the Prodical Son, however it is spelled. That those who turn away from their Father, will be accepted when they come back/go home.
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Post by emily445455 on Jun 5, 2009 21:05:50 GMT -5
People who turn away from Christ or do not do any works for Him out of love will not receive any crowns.
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Post by watchman on Jun 5, 2009 21:10:47 GMT -5
I was under the impression you believe that certain works are necessary to either earn or keep one's Salvation. Like water baptism, communion, saying certain prayers one hundred times a day...whatever. No I do not believe any of these things are necessary for salvation but anyone who is truly saved would be immediately baptized and take communion, the certain prayers are not necessary for sure. Of course he will always accept anyone who comes to Him whether they are backsliden or never before saved. |
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Post by watchman on Jun 5, 2009 21:11:21 GMT -5
People who turn away from Christ or do not do any works for Him out of love will not receive any crowns. People who turn away from Christ go to Hell. |
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Post by emily445455 on Jun 5, 2009 21:17:35 GMT -5
Well, I disagree.
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Post by watchman on Jun 5, 2009 22:05:09 GMT -5
Well you are disagreeing with scripture not me. Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. you really think You can get into heaven after turning your back on Christ and never repenting for it? |
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Post by emily445455 on Jun 5, 2009 22:33:07 GMT -5
Whoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be Saved. Not shall be Saved as long as you keep loving me. There are many verses that talk about the OSAS concept. It's like getting an A on a test, flunking the next one and getting your A taken away....doesn't make sense.
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Post by teresahrc on Jun 5, 2009 22:52:40 GMT -5
Exactly Emily. The son had to do something to be forgiven. He had to go home.
22Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off.(Romans 11)
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Post by watchman on Jun 5, 2009 23:14:15 GMT -5
Whoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be Saved. Not shall be Saved as long as you keep loving me. There are many verses that talk about the OSAS concept. It's like getting an A on a test, flunking the next one and getting your A taken away....doesn't make sense. Actually that is what the Bible teach all who cal on me will be saved IF they continue in the faith and endure until the end. Colissians 1
21 And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled
22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:
23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister; Hebrews 3:6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.I underlined the IFs for you there is many, many more scriptures that teach this same thing. He who has eyes to see and ears to hear, let him hear what the Spirit speaks to the church.
Mark 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. |
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Post by Cepha on Jun 6, 2009 9:06:06 GMT -5
Galatians 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. In James, "works" refer to works of love that follow belief. True love and devotion to Christ shows itself by deeds or works of love. Which is what I thought all along...if one truely is a born-again Christian, they will do works to show their love to Christ. Great scripture Em, but that's talking about a person being justified "just" by works. Notice it doesn't say "by works and faith", but just "works" alone. Works are evidence that one has faith and thus, are neccessary just like scripture states that faith without works is dead and nothing dead enters heaven.  All you did was state what I already beleive, but in reverse. You'll see that that very same scipture you posted says nothing about one not "needing" works and about "faith alone" saving a person. Now, based on this scripture you chose, do you believe that justification is the same as salvation? I don't think a Christian should do "works" to prove anything. I believe a Christian naturally produces good works without even trying because The Spirit of Christ dwells within them. Understand? A person cannot "work" themselves into God's good graces. If they do good, it should be for the sake of benefitting another, not themselves and this is what I believe pleases God. If I give a homeless person my last dollar out of the compassion of my heart, I believe this pleases God. If I do it out of trying to buy God's good side, then that will be judged by God as if I'm bartering with Him. I believe that God does not want this kind of work. Understand? |
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Post by emily445455 on Jun 6, 2009 9:46:04 GMT -5
Steven, justified in those verses means to show or prove that one has Christ. One is already Saved, and to justify this they do works to please God.
Sometimes when I do things for Christ, they are hard...I'm not at the point yet where I do them naturally.
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Post by watchman on Jun 6, 2009 12:58:02 GMT -5
Emily did you see my post reply 75 it shows that you do have to continue in the relationship with Christ to receive final salvation. Calling on Him at one time in your life in not the end but the beginning.
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Post by emily445455 on Jun 6, 2009 13:09:45 GMT -5
Joey, not really...I don't read half the posts around here. I know what I believe |
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