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Post by emily445455 on Jun 4, 2009 22:11:47 GMT -5
I guess that's why I believe in NSNS...if someone was truely Saved, they wouldn't do that to Christ.
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Post by watchman on Jun 4, 2009 22:58:29 GMT -5
James 2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only. Get real! There are over 100 references to" faith alone" in the New Testament. Give me one example of faith alone, by faith alone, faith only or by faith only is ever used in scripture outsdie of James 2:24. |
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Post by watchman on Jun 4, 2009 23:05:34 GMT -5
O.K. but what if you started using drugs, sleeping around on your husband and hanging out in bars getting drunk? Then would you still be saved? Or if you decided you didn't want to serve God anymore and complete rejected Him and starting trying to convince other not to serve Him either? Then would you still be saved? I wouldn't though because I love Christ. I guess that falls under NSNS. Ye shall know them by their fruits...if they don't have any fruits, they are probably not Saved. I do not believe you would ,but the Not Saved Never were Saved is a false doctrine as well. Scripture clearly teaches that a true believer that at one time walked with God can indeed, and some will turn from their salvation. |
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Post by Ramon on Jun 5, 2009 0:16:58 GMT -5
I guess that's why I believe in NSNS...if someone was truely Saved, they wouldn't do that to Christ. Yes they could. Judas is a perfect example. Christ and the Holy Apostles taught that a genuine believer can fall from grace. They can stop believing, loving, and obeying Christ, and thus lose there salvation. I posted all the Scriptures that teach this. Why are you ignoring them Emily? If we take your doctrine as Authentic Apostolic Teaching than all the warnings in the NT (Address to saved Christians) about falling from grace are lies. The Holy Apostles, like Saint Paul (book of Hebrews), exhortations to continue believing and obeying Christ are meaningless. I believe them. I take there warning serious. Why don't you? Don't you know Emily that all the warnings in the NT are address to saved Christians (about falling from grace.....losing one's salvation)? In IC.XC, Ramon |
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Post by Cepha on Jun 5, 2009 8:31:59 GMT -5
Joey- Yes. I believe that once one is born-again and has accepted Christ and has faith in Him, they are Saved from that moment on. Saved from "what" Em? |
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Post by Cepha on Jun 5, 2009 8:35:43 GMT -5
The Blood was Christ is enough for me. All the efforts I make to earn my Salvation are in vain...and rather insulting to God. That was for salvation from "original sin". After that, we are on our own to "work out" our own salvation. That way, the unrepentant child molester can't get into heaven just because he acknowledges Jesus Christ. Muslims believe that Jesus Christ came as a man. For that, The Bible calls them "of God" even if they deny that He is The Messiah (where the Bible states no condition on being called "of God" in that verse). Does it make them saved automatically? No. They dont' meet the conditions of salvation automatically. Understand? Faith alone (according to The Bible "if" you believe it as written) does not guarantee you salvtaion.  |
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Post by Cepha on Jun 5, 2009 8:42:14 GMT -5
Ramon- I'm not too much into "what ifs". I love God, I accepted Christ....I am Saved, period. No matter what I do or don't do (regarding works). You're saved from original sin. That is what The Bible says. That Jesus died for (not just you alone) alllll mankind (beleivers or not) so that they might be (not guaranteed) reconcilled to God (by their works). Works alone don't save. Faith alone doesn't save. Works prove one has faith and are neccessary. Just like in Matthew 7 (I believe) where Jesus judges Christians. They recognized Him as their "Lord" and publically proclaimed this, but despite that faith, they had no works, thus, they were condemned to eternal damnation. That is a biblical fact. They are the goats...those who claim to be Christians, but aren't. Just as goats look like sheep from far away and are in flocks, once you get close, you see their true identities...those things that separate them from the sheep (horns). As those who looked like sheep approached Christ when being judged, Jesus recognized their horns (which one could say was their lack of living a true Christian life besides just proclaiming to be Christians in name alone). Metaphors for how just believing Jesus is The Messiah is not enough if you're not going to live a Christian life. All the proclamations in the world don't add up to a hill of beans when you are judged for your works according to Jesus Christ. You could have faith alone and still be condemned to eternal hell. |
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Post by Cepha on Jun 5, 2009 8:43:40 GMT -5
Read this Em and tell me what you think:
Matthew 7
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father who is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy by thy name, and by thy name cast out demons, and by thy name do many mighty works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
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Post by Cepha on Jun 5, 2009 9:03:21 GMT -5
I did a lesson on Assurance of Salvation in my Discipleship. So I guess I'm faith-alone....? Maybe, I really have no idea...nor do I really care, I just blieve what the BIble says. So then, you believe that a man is justified (saved) by his works, right? Because that's what The Bible says. "...by works a man is justified..." |
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Post by Cepha on Jun 5, 2009 9:04:42 GMT -5
The Blood was Christ is enough for me. All the efforts I make to earn my Salvation are in vain...and rather insulting to God. Does scripture teach this? |
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Post by Cepha on Jun 5, 2009 9:06:37 GMT -5
Ramon- I'm not too much into "what ifs". I love God, I accepted Christ....I am Saved, period. No matter what I do or don't do (regarding works). In Revelations 2, Jesus condemns whole Christian churches who accepted Christ to hell. Was their "faith alone" enough to save them from that judgement? |
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Post by emily445455 on Jun 5, 2009 9:22:43 GMT -5
Ramon, where does it say that Judas was Saved, yet went to hell when he killed himself?
Steven, wayyyy too many posts. We should do works because we love God, not to earn or keep our Salvation. It is not necessary and rather insulting to Christ.
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Post by Cepha on Jun 5, 2009 9:24:44 GMT -5
Ramon, where does it say that Judas was Saved, yet went to hell when he killed himself? Steven, wayyyy too many posts. We should do works because we love God, not to earn or keep our Salvation. It is not necessary and rather insulting to Christ. Actually, it's Jesus who said that those without works were condemned even though they had faith (in Matthew 7). They didn't feed the hungry, they didn't visit the imprisoned, they didn't clothe the naked. Do you agree or disagree with that scripture I posted? |
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Post by emily445455 on Jun 5, 2009 9:26:01 GMT -5
Those who don't do works aren't really Saved in the first place. False convertions, goign thru the motions only, etc....haven't accepted Christ.
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Post by Cepha on Jun 5, 2009 10:02:53 GMT -5
Those who don't do works aren't really Saved in the first place. False convertions, goign thru the motions only, etc....haven't accepted Christ. So then, according to what you just said, The Bible is factual when it states that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone, right? |
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Post by watchman on Jun 5, 2009 10:03:42 GMT -5
Those who don't do works aren't really Saved in the first place. False convertions, goign thru the motions only, etc....haven't accepted Christ. What if they did really accept Christ, produce fruit, and then turn from Him and their salvation. Are you trying to say their conversion was false. That is not scriptural. |
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Post by emily445455 on Jun 5, 2009 11:39:56 GMT -5
Steven, fruits are evidence of true Salvation and faith in Christ.
Joey, I don't believe they would have truely accepted Christ then turn away from him 100%.
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Post by Cepha on Jun 5, 2009 12:19:45 GMT -5
Steven, fruits are evidence of true Salvation and faith in Christ. That's not in question, but do you believe that men are justified to God (saved) by their works as the scripture states? Yes? No? |
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Post by emily445455 on Jun 5, 2009 12:25:12 GMT -5
I don't think justified in this case means Saved. I need my bible...it's in hubby truck.
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Post by Cepha on Jun 5, 2009 12:57:12 GMT -5
I don't think justified in this case means Saved. I need my bible...it's in hubby truck. Well! Go git it gurl! LOL! [If justified does "not" mean saved, what then?] |
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