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Post by Cepha on Jun 9, 2009 16:02:34 GMT -5
Tables though...? And hunks of rock? I don't think I will ever understand. Are you familiar with The Wailing Wall in Jeruselum? Are the Jews now idolatrers? |
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Post by Cepha on Jun 9, 2009 16:06:58 GMT -5
Emily, it's like soldiers saluting higher ranking officers. It's not for worship, but for honor. Yet, when in God's presence, yes, we bow to God in worship. Yup! It's very simple. When I was a Protestant, I never understood this either. Once I became Orthodox, I understood and my eyes were open. No Idolatry in the Catholic or Orthodox Churches. Just plain reverence and honor. In IC.XC, Ramon Not in our Churches Ramon, nor in God's Temple or to The Ark.  |
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Post by alfie on Jun 9, 2009 17:07:57 GMT -5
This is the 2nd commandment of the Ten Commandments given to Moses by God. You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my Commandments. Notice the commandment says not to even bow down to an idol. According to the dictionary an idol is any object of adoration.... like a picture for example. Exactly, a Idol, not images and Statues in general. A Icon can certainty be a Idol, but not in Eastern Orthodox Christianity. Our theology concerning Holy Icons and Statues are straight forward. Divine Worship is due to God alone. Scriptures gives witness to Holy Icons and Statues. Holy Icons and Statues goes back to the Old Testament! Deal with it! Second, Catholics and Orthodox do not worship Icons or Statues. We venerate them. We honor and respect the person or event the Icon respects. Do not accuse us Orthodox of worshiping Icons and Statues when we do not! Anyone who does is not Orthodox! I am going to very straightforward here. You should keep silent (and worry about your own salvation) and not pass judgments on something you know nothing about. You are not God and you do not know the hearts of men. In IC.XC, Ramon This is hysterical. According to Wikipedia the Orthodox Church traditionally teaches that while images of God, the Father, remain prohibited, depictions of Jesus as the incarnation of God as a visible human are permissible. To emphasize the theological importance of the incarnation, the Orthodox Church encourages the use of icons in church and private devotions, but generally prefers a non-naturalistic, two-dimensional depiction as a reminder of this theological aspect. In modern use (usually as a result of Roman Catholic influence), more naturalistic images and images of the Father, however, also appear occasionally in Orthodox churches, but statues, i.e. three-dimensional depictions, continue to be banned. For Jews and Muslims veneration violates this commandment. Jews and Muslims read this commandment as prohibiting the use of idols and images in any way. Tradionally, the Orthodox have criticized the Roman Catholic use of decorative statues while Roman Catholics have criticized the Orthodox veneration of icons. This sentence is hysterical. ;D Up until the Council of Chalcedon the Western Church condemned the use of statutes or icons in church but the Western Church finally gave in to the Eastern Church and allowed them to use icons in their churches because they were already using them. Eventually that led to Catholics using statues in their churches. So up until the Council of Chalcedon icons and statues were considered idolatry. So you are talking about a period of hundreds of years before the council met where the use of icons and statues was considered a sin. You see how this has led to a slippery slope? Catholics are obsessed with the Virgin Mary which has caused Marian appriations to happen throughout the world. |
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Post by Cepha on Jun 9, 2009 17:12:00 GMT -5
This sentence is hysterical. ;D
This! ;D |
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Post by alfie on Jun 9, 2009 17:19:31 GMT -5
This sentence is hysterical. ;D
This! ;D David also danced before the Lord and his wife told him he looked foolish. |
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Post by Cepha on Jun 9, 2009 17:23:34 GMT -5
You know what's hysterical?
This! ;D David also danced before the Lord and his wife told him he looked foolish. Jesus never danced. |
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Post by emily445455 on Jun 9, 2009 18:13:54 GMT -5
How do you know, Steven?
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Post by teresahrc on Jun 9, 2009 22:15:09 GMT -5
OY
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Post by alfie on Jun 10, 2009 12:25:30 GMT -5
I liked it better when you iconodules were in the closet.
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Post by emily445455 on Jun 10, 2009 14:17:39 GMT -5
Alfie, I don't know much about the wailing wall at all.
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Post by teresahrc on Jun 10, 2009 14:18:37 GMT -5
Well, if we are in a closet, you are too, because this is a Catholic web site remember?
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Post by watchman on Jun 10, 2009 15:20:06 GMT -5
Well, if we are in a closet, you are too, because this is a Catholic web site remember? Why do you feel the need to keep claiming this is a catholic web site i came here because cepha was asking for none catholics to come here. If you do not want non catholics here, why did cepha ask for us? And if you do want us here, then what would be the point of keep claiming we do not belong in your precious catholic forum? |
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Post by teresahrc on Jun 10, 2009 17:39:37 GMT -5
NO! You are misunderstanding me. Non-Catholics are of course welcome here!
My point was that this is a Catholic website, so of course we aren't going to be "in the closet" about our views, and of course we are going to defend our faith.
Of course non-Catholics can come here, but they shouldn't be shocked or surprised that we are going to promote our faith.
I hope that makes sense.
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Post by teresahrc on Jun 10, 2009 17:41:41 GMT -5
We want you to come here so that we can debate you of course!
But you will never earn any debating points by telling us to stay in the closet.
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Post by watchman on Jun 10, 2009 20:56:06 GMT -5
NO! You are misunderstanding me. Non-Catholics are of course welcome here! My point was that this is a Catholic website, so of course we aren't going to be "in the closet" about our views, and of course we are going to defend our faith. Of course non-Catholics can come here, but they shouldn't be shocked or surprised that we are going to promote our faith. I hope that makes sense. Make sense, and I wouldn't want you to stay in the closet. Maybe come to your senses but not stay in the closet |
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Post by teresahrc on Jun 11, 2009 21:29:09 GMT -5
I already came to my senses when I became Catholic. Actually, God brought me there, I never would have done it on my own.
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Post by Cepha on Jun 12, 2009 8:20:21 GMT -5
Cuz it's "not" in The Bible! |
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Post by Cepha on Jun 12, 2009 8:20:37 GMT -5
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Post by Cepha on Jun 12, 2009 8:22:39 GMT -5
I already came to my senses when I became Catholic. Actually, God brought me there, I never would have done it on my own. Amen...he apparently doesn't know that not only were you a Protestant "before" you came home to universal Christianity and that I used to be as Anti-Catholic before I myself came home, as I am Catholic today (just like Saul was before he became Paul). ;D |
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Post by Cepha on Jun 12, 2009 9:41:08 GMT -5
Alfie, I don't know much about the wailing wall at all. It's a Holy Site that Jews venerate. |
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