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Post by emily445455 on Jun 19, 2009 21:25:20 GMT -5
Oh just the person being represented in the picture...okay  |
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Post by Ramon on Jun 19, 2009 21:54:27 GMT -5
Ramon, you still didn't tell me why your church eliminated the second commandment. We didn't. What God commanded them not to do was to make images and worship them as Idols. When the Hebrews translated the Bible into Greek (The Septuagint, highly favored by Christ and the Holy Apostles), they translated "graven images" simply as "eidoloi", i.e. "idols." Furthermore the Hebrew word "pesel" is never used in reference to any of the images in the Temple. So clearly the reference here is to pagan images rather than images in general. Holy Icons and Statues was a very important part of Judaism. Nothing in Scriptures forbid Holy Icons and Statues. In fact, Holy Icons and Statues goes back to the Old Testament, and since Christianity is a extension of Judaism, the Early Church since the Apostolic Era, for the most part, did not mind Holy Icons. Alfie, you still didn't tell me why I can find images of crosses (etc) in a Methodist Church, and why I saw a Icon of a event in the Holy Scriptures in one Methodist Church (like you will see in a Orthodox Church). Seems your people don't mind. Perhaps only you do........ Alfie, Holy Icons has its roots in the Holy Scriptures. You should reread my last post and ponder my words. In IC.XC, Ramon |
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Post by Ramon on Jun 19, 2009 21:55:52 GMT -5
Oh just the person being represented in the picture...okay Yup, just like a artist will paint a cartoon version of you (exist here in NYC). Holy Icons are not Kodak pictures. Why can't you get that? In IC.XC, Ramon |
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Jun 19, 2009 22:04:53 GMT -5
Ok, just to let you know em....i have crosses hung in my house with Jesus on them....but I have NEVER, sat there and prayed while looking at it. I think that people have drilled into your head that we "worship" statues and pictures, which is simply not true. In yalls sunday school books to teach your sunday school kids there are pictures of Jesus, Joeseph, Mary and so on. Now do i think yall worship the pictures...NO. Common sense sweety!
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Post by Ramon on Jun 19, 2009 22:13:37 GMT -5
Ok, just to let you know em....i have crosses hung in my house with Jesus on them....but I have NEVER, sat there and prayed while looking at it. I think that people have drilled into your head that we "worship" statues and pictures, which is simply not true. In yalls sunday school books to teach your sunday school kids there are pictures of Jesus, Joeseph, Mary and so on. Now do i think yall worship the pictures...NO. Common sense sweety! Amen!. Anti-Catholics has spread there venom that Catholics worship Icons and Statues. In IC.XC, Ramon |
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Post by teresahrc on Jun 19, 2009 22:16:54 GMT -5
Alfie, since you have a quote of Martin Luther on the bottom of your posts, I would like to respond to this comment with a quote by Martin Luther:
"Therefore, I have to admit that the images cannot help by themselves; they are neither good nor bad; we can have them or not have them...For I cannot deny that there might be a man who uses images rightly...why oh why do you condemn that which may be used rightly?"
(quoted from the book Theological Aesthetics (a reader) by Gesa Elsbeth Thiessen
From Martin Luther's Sermon on Ecclesiastes given on March 12, 1522
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Post by emily445455 on Jun 19, 2009 22:20:45 GMT -5
That's another thing I don't get....always in Catholic churches I see the dead Jesus, never the alive One.
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Post by teresahrc on Jun 19, 2009 23:27:25 GMT -5
That's another thing I don't get....always in Catholic churches I see the dead Jesus, never the alive One. That's because you don't believe in the Eucharist Emily. And what is wrong with remembering Jesus' sacrifice for us? 1When I came to you, brothers, I did not come with eloquence or superior wisdom as I proclaimed to you the testimony about God. 2For I resolved to know nothing while I was with you except Jesus Christ and him crucified. 1 Corinthians 2 Why do Christians wear crosses? To remember Jesus' sacrifice. Please don't say Protestants wear "empty" crosses because "Jesus didn't stay on the cross" . That doesn't make sense. If you want to wear a symbol that shows Jesus is alive(which all Christians obviously know and believe) , you need to wear a symbol of an empty tomb. |
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Post by Ramon on Jun 19, 2009 23:56:45 GMT -5
If alfie want to condemn Holy Icons and Statues because some have worship them or that it can lead to idolatry, she should live in a cardboard box or a empty house, as almost everything found in a regular home can be turn into Idol (tv, games, computers, etc). Anything can be turn into a idol. The issue here is not images in general, but the heart of the person. I can turn my computer into a Idol. Now what? Should we all burn our computers?
In IC.XC,
Ramon
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Post by teresahrc on Jun 20, 2009 0:00:55 GMT -5
The Bible says that greed is idolatry, so we'd have to burn all our money too.
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Post by Ramon on Jun 20, 2009 0:32:54 GMT -5
LOL! Remember Heather, the Bible also said gluttony is a sin, so we should all play it safe and not eat at all! LOL
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Post by emily445455 on Jun 20, 2009 8:59:47 GMT -5
Heather, I like to focus on the Living Christ, not the dead one. His death was significant...but it wasn't special...all humans die.
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Jun 20, 2009 9:35:18 GMT -5
That's another thing I don't get....always in Catholic churches I see the dead Jesus, never the alive One. Thats crap! My church has the risen Jesus on the cross in the front and the back of the church. Very beautiful! |
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Jun 20, 2009 9:38:12 GMT -5
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Post by emily445455 on Jun 20, 2009 9:40:18 GMT -5
Marcie, It was special in the sense that it was for us, but it wasn't very special in the sense that everyone dies. It was Him coming back to life that seperates Him from every other human being.
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Post by emily445455 on Jun 20, 2009 9:41:32 GMT -5
Whenever I see a Catholic's home, there are dead Jesus's all over the place, as well as the Catholic church I went to once.
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Jun 20, 2009 9:44:11 GMT -5
I think you have been drilled in your head that a Crucifix is a bad thing. Its not...IT HAPPENED. I also dont think you have been into many Catholic homes, because we have all types of crosses, bare ones, and Risen ones. I think you are just talking nonsense on Catholics...sorry im not buying it!
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Post by emily445455 on Jun 20, 2009 9:48:37 GMT -5
Jesus's sacrifice for us was not a bad thing, I am so thankful that He did that for me. But, His death isn't what seperates Him from the rest of humanity and makes Him God. He rose Himself by His own power, that is what is significant....His physical dieing was just like anyone else physically dieing.
Well, I've seen lots of Catholic's homes on TV.
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Post by cradlecathlic27 on Jun 20, 2009 11:12:22 GMT -5
LOL
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Post by emily445455 on Jun 20, 2009 11:38:53 GMT -5
If He died and that was it.....how does that make His death important, Marcie? I am not into glorifying the dead Jesus, but the Risen One.
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