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Post by teresahrc on Jul 2, 2009 0:28:29 GMT -5
Alfie, I don't know what he said about Peter. We don't have to listen to anything that contradicts scripture, or the sound doctrines of the Church. He is not the founder of my Religion, I'm not protestant.
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Post by Cepha on Jul 2, 2009 8:09:29 GMT -5
Alfie, I don't know what he said about Peter. We don't have to listen to anything that contradicts scripture, or the sound doctrines of the Church. He is not the founder of my Religion, I'm not protestant. Ditto. ;D |
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Post by Cepha on Jul 2, 2009 8:34:01 GMT -5
Bishops are "Apostles" they have been ordained and serve in the office of the Apostles in succession since the time of the first Apostles. You have to be ordained an APostle by another Apostle, you can't just decide to become one on your own. Sorry, but women are never "Apostles" only Men. You can certainly be a disciple though. All of us can if we follow Jesus--no matter what race, gender or religion. Bishops are not Apostles, but are "apostolically" succeeded. Only the 12 Apostles and those that walked with Christ who meet the criteria in Acts 1 are Apostles.  They can be called "apostles", but not "Apostles" (as the word also means "ambassador"). |
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Post by Cepha on Jul 2, 2009 8:44:48 GMT -5
Marice, how come? If a Apostle is one who walks with God...well...I walk with God to the best of my ability. Heather, Where does it say only men can be Apostles? And I already am a Disciple. An Apostle isn't one who "walks and talks" with God, but that "walked with Jesus". Acts 1. You Anti-Catholics really need to start to read your bibles. For real. I've never met so many biblically poorly prepared people in my life. You completely contradict scripture and when they are pointed out to you, you say "it doesn't mean what it says." Well, if you're going to re-define scripture, why bother being a Christian? You're supposed yield your minds to the scriptures not bend the scriptures to your mind. Here's a revelation for you guys...you don't HAVE TO be able to understand every single verse in the Bible. Don't rush it. If you can't understand something that has been believed for 2,000 years, don't redefine it just so that you can justify you "not" being a universal Christian. Just let The Bible speak to you...don't read it with an agenda.  |
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Post by Cepha on Jul 2, 2009 8:54:38 GMT -5
Apostolic tradition Emily. Remember, women aren't permitted to teach or have authority over a man. An Apostle is a teacher sent by Jesus to teach. How could it be a woman? Listen Em, if you truly believe that "you" are the church and you believe that women are to be silent in church, then you're not supposed to be talking about religion. You're supposed to be silent! That's "if" what you combine what you say you believe with scripture! LOL! So, what's it going to be? Are you going to combine that you are the church and the scripture that states that you are not to teach in church and that you are to be silent! ;D |
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Post by emily445455 on Jul 2, 2009 9:20:41 GMT -5
Steven, That really hurt me  I always try to be so kind and state things so gently...just to be come back at with that? You've said some condenscending to me and others in the past, but this one wins. I am leaving the forum for awhile, I will not tolerate that kind of behavior from another Christian. No wonder the Lost are not drawn to Jesus....when Christians speak to each other like that, I wouldn't want anything to do with the guy who's in charge either. |
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Post by biblebeliever100 on Jul 2, 2009 9:31:10 GMT -5
Wow Cepha........
That was harsh to Em!
Christian eh? I thought God's people were supposed to be edifying each other. To work together for the Will of God. And no, about people knowing everything in the Bible. Every other Christian that I know and myself do not know, and don't need to know, what every word and verse in the Bible means. God reveals things to us when we are ready. We cannot handle the entire truth sometimes. But I know that my fellow Christians and I realize this and trust in the Lord and He knows what He is doing and reveals things to us when we are ready to hear them. We take the Word of God, and ONLY the Word of God which is what He gave us and trust in that and that alone. Why all the extras?
And I haven't seen that anyone is redefining anything. The words of the Lord are just being presented............no need for anger and sarcasm!!!
;D
I have realized the more I learn, the more I DON'T know, and we are not to judge..that is God's job! We are in no place as we are all sinner's and none of us deserve to be with Him...it is only by His Grace that he accepts us into His Kingdom. A Christian is simply someone who has given his/her life to Jesus Christ and believe that He is the Son of God that died on the cross for each and every one of us. For each sin that we have and will commit. When we have that personal relationship and realize that He is everything and the only way to heaven then can we say we are true Christians. (As clearly defined over and over and over in His Word.)
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Post by Cepha on Jul 2, 2009 9:43:04 GMT -5
Steven, That really hurt me I always try to be so kind and state things so gently...just to be come back at with that? You've said some condenscending to me and others in the past, but this one wins. I am leaving the forum for awhile, I will not tolerate that kind of behavior from another Christian. No wonder the Lost are not drawn to Jesus....when Christians speak to each other like that, I wouldn't want anything to do with the guy who's in charge either. LOL! You have to be kidding me! LOL! I said that in jest! That's why I put the LOL's in it so that it wouldn't be confused with an insult! Come on, you're kidding right? Are you going to tell me that you interpreted that to be an insult? I was making fun of your "Sola Scripturism"! LOL! I can't beleive you totally missed that! If you leave, it's not going to be because of this comment I wrote. My comment was a joke. I think if you leave, I think it will be a "time out". Because to be brutally honest, you've been more engaging here in the last 2 weeks or so than in the whole year. Which is great. But, you keep getting walled with your own words. I guess, you're not as much a Sola Scripturist as you say you are, huh? LOL! Come on Em! That was a funny post! You're supposed to come back with a theological response as to how you can be "the church" and at the same time be "speaking in the church" when The Bible states that you're supposed to be silent! LOL! Why don't you respond to the questions I posted? HUH? LOL! |
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Post by Cepha on Jul 2, 2009 9:47:12 GMT -5
Wow Cepha........ That was harsh to Em! LOL! What? You too! It was a joke! LOL! She should've come back with a Biblical defense! LOL! And that is exactly my point! If a woman "take the Word of God, and ONLY the Word of God", and they believe that they are the church (not "extra" building or organization) and The Word of God says that they are to be "silent" in church, then how can they be also debating theology? Don't you see the contradiction there? Yeah, "woman" doesn't mean "woman" in Revelation 12! LOL! And the only ones that seem to be angry here, are those who aren't posting LOL's in their responses! LOL! BB1, you reflect me so much it's scary! That's my line! |
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Post by emily445455 on Jul 2, 2009 9:49:44 GMT -5
Cepha, You didn't add one LOL in your comment towards me and other "anti-catholics". Not one, in fact you said "for real". In another thread today you said "you guys always come back with the same uneducated responses".
Jesus is love. I see absolutely no love in your posts.
And by the way, when you say "LOL!" in your posts, that is also condenscending. Like you are laughing in our faces.
You will probably just shake this off as nothing, which is sad...since it REALLY hurt me. I believe God will ask us why we did some of the things we did...even after we are Saved.
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Post by biblebeliever100 on Jul 2, 2009 10:07:35 GMT -5
Quote:
We take the Word of God, and ONLY the Word of God which is what He gave us and trust in that and that alone. Why all the extras?
Cepha:
And that is exactly my point!
Is that your point? Hmm its interesting...... with all the extras in the Catholic faith.
I also agree with Em. I joined this forum to learn more about the Catholic faith. Not to get slammed or see others slammed by sharing the Word of God. Everyone is soo DEFENSIVE... why is there a need to be defensive if it the truth? I know that I am not.. i just try to get others to see the truth through God's words, not mine or other men.
I grew up being Catholic for 18 years of my life, and then found God and He saved me!...and want to continue to learn more about the Catholic faith because I have such a heart for Catholics but maybe I should look elsewhere where questions don't turn into (what seems like conflict).
Thank you for all of your time and God Bless You!
Eph. 2:8,9 - For by GRACE are ye saved through faith; and that NOT of yourselves: is is the GIFT OF GOD: NOT OF WORKS, lest any man should boast.
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Post by Cepha on Jul 2, 2009 10:18:20 GMT -5
Cepha, You didn't add one LOL in your comment towards me and other "anti-catholics". Not one, in fact you said "for real". In another thread today you said "you guys always come back with the same uneducated responses". Jesus is love. I see absolutely no love in your posts. Wow! Now you're just plain lieing and slandering me! Here is the exact text of my post! You would've done far better to just have answered the question I posted there instead of getting all "sensitive" about it! Anddd! What I said was true! Your responses are undeducated! You guys say that wine is sinful and/or uneccessary, right? I posted scripture where The Word of God says that we are to drink wine! Your post is either uneducated or simply Anti-Biblical! And you cannot deny that (or the fact that you lied about me not putting one LOL in my post to you!). You were wrong to say what you said about wine. Are you angry because I prove you wrong with 1 Tim 5:32 and showed your belief to be unbiblical?  And not only is there an LOL there, but also a grinning smiley! What da' heck? First you say this: "Cepha, You didn't add one LOL in your comment towards me..."Then you said this: "And by the way, when you say "LOL!" in your posts..." Which one is it? I "didn't" add an LOL? "When" I say LOL?  Alrightee then! I guess that's kind of like saying that drinking wine is sinful even though The Word of God tells us to drink wine.   Em, God knows my heart when I wrote what I wrote to you! He knows I was saying it joking around! So, my conscience is clear (regardless of how much you want to impose your own personal translation of what I meant). You can't do it in The Bible, and you can't do it to me. You just can't redefine what others write and decide that "that's" what it means. You have to accept things as written. Oh, and I see no "love" in lieing about me and what I wrote either. And there is certainly no Christ in contradictions (like saying I didn't write one LOL, then saying what "when" I write LOL's). I think you do need a break Em. You're totally confused right now. Relax, we'll be here when you get back with open arms! This is like a disfunctional Brady Bunch! LOL! |
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Post by emily445455 on Jul 2, 2009 10:26:56 GMT -5
Cepha, You HURT me and made me upset. I am ashamed to admit it, but I cried a little on hubby's shoulder. I have few (one) friend in real life. People I meet and love on forums are my friends...to have someone say something hurtful to me is just like one of my close friends saying it to me.
I'm sorry if that means nothing to you.
And this was the post I was talking about. Absolutely no indication that you were joking, and even if you were....WHAT A BAD JOKE!!! I try my best to put love and kind words in all of my posts....and this...this is just not necessary from a fellow Christian. We are supposed to lift each other up in our words and actions, to help one another in this good fight....not condescend each other. THAT creates more divisions than Catholic vs. Protestant every could. THAT is what keeps nonBelievers away from Christ....how Christians treat one another.
"An Apostle isn't one who "walks and talks" with God, but that "walked with Jesus".
Acts 1.
You Anti-Catholics really need to start to read your bibles.
For real.
I've never met so many biblically poorly prepared people in my life.
You completely contradict scripture and when they are pointed out to you, you say "it doesn't mean what it says."
Well, if you're going to re-define scripture, why bother being a Christian?
You're supposed yield your minds to the scriptures not bend the scriptures to your mind.
Here's a revelation for you guys...you don't HAVE TO be able to understand every single verse in the Bible.
Don't rush it.
If you can't understand something that has been believed for 2,000 years, don't redefine it just so that you can justify you "not" being a universal Christian.
Just let The Bible speak to you...don't read it with an agenda."
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Post by emily445455 on Jul 2, 2009 10:30:29 GMT -5
Okay Cepha, I am just going to say it, if you ban me...so be it. You are a mean person. You are a condenscending person. Period. You are immature and mean towards me and most others on this forum, including the Catholics. You can claim that I am lieing and slandering you if you want, but it is the truth...and I have a feeling most here would agree with me....maybe not those who agree with you 100% on issues...but the others would.
I will probably never be back. Heather and Marcie and Ramon, I would love it if you contacted me sometime. Steven, you can contact me if you want....
Bye. and See most of you in heaven.
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Post by Cepha on Jul 2, 2009 10:44:27 GMT -5
Quote: We take the Word of God, and ONLY the Word of God which is what He gave us and trust in that and that alone. Why all the extras? Cepha: And that is exactly my point! Is that your point? Hmm its interesting...... with all the extras in the Catholic faith. LOL! You didn't say The Catholic Faith in your original post! And...what you call "extras", they are in scripture. Besides, no where in The Bible did it say that The Church would just come to a halt and stop growing. For Protestants, Christianity is too much "work". You have to be baptized, forgive others, do good things...I'm sure some would love to have a "Get Out Of Hell Free" card, but the thing is, no such teaching exists. God used a physical building for His Church. So do we. God loved incense in prayer. We pray with incense. God loved it when we prayed for intercessions. We pray for intercessions. God used sacramentals. We use sacramentals. God established The Priesthood. We benefit from that Priesthood. God chose The Catholic Church to reveal The Holy Bible to. We revealed The Holy Bible to The world. God's Bible has 73 books. Denominational Christians' bible only has 66. Yeah, I can see why what God sees as pleasing to Him and why Christianity has always seed these traditional Biblical practices as essential is foreign to you as a Denominational Christian. All that stuff has been done away with in your Euro/American religion. And that's cool for you. But I as a Christian cannot do away with Christianity. I don't suscribe to a watered-down, stripped, diet version of Christianity. As I posted before...Christians are greedy for God! We want more and more and more! More prayer! More liturgy! More holy brethren in Heaven! More, more, more! Jesus defended The Priesthood and His Father's House. We'll roll right on with Christ and not delete what He defended. That's all cool, well and fine. But it's odd how Anti-Catholics say inflammatory things about universal Christianity, then get all offended when Catholics come back fighting. Of course we're going to defend our faith. We did it against The Muslim Incursions and protected Christianity from them and we'll do it to any other religion that pops up attacking us. You can't (not you specifically) slam someone and be surprised when you get slammed back. Here are the facts...American Catholics (70%) are weak in their faith. But, the devout Catholics (30%) are really taking advantage of technology to defend the faith and to set the record straight about us. Gone are the days of the one church town where everyone becomes that religion because it's the only church in town. Now, we can openly discuss things and all those Anti-Catholics fallacies that were taught to Protestants are being challenged. I'm not the turn the other cheek kind of guy. I'll cut someone's ear off first before I get corrected by Christ. It's just my nature. I'm still a work in progress. God has a tough case on His hands with me. But, He knows my heart. And I must be worth His trouble because He hasn't let me down since He picked my back up 10 years ago! Ahhh! One of the 70%! I was a cradle Catholic, left The Church, became a militant Anti-Catholic, then got a spiritual beatdown by God. He brought me to my knees. And He brought me back home. If you will get offended by rough spoken "not" holier-than-though real blue-collar Christians, you will not be happy here. We don't ban people for expressing themselves (only for disrespecting others). So, you will get pure unadulterated talk here. You wont' get that everywhere. That is why we are both at once tiny and why anybody who comes here LEARNS! ;D I "was" going to say "don't let the doorknob hit you where...", because I'm such a comedian, but I won't...some people are too sensitive. There are "Kumbaya" sites out there, but I've found them to be very hypocritical and selective in the judgement they hand out. Me? I'm just like my namesake Cepha (Peter!). I'm rough around the edges. But, I'm real. I have'nt been polished to a fine shine yet. Might never be. But, at least, I say what I say in good conscious. Believe it or not, God talks to Catholics too!  |
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Post by Cepha on Jul 2, 2009 10:55:39 GMT -5
Cepha, You HURT me and made me upset. I am ashamed to admit it, but I cried a little on hubby's shoulder. I have few (one) friend in real life. People I meet and love on forums are my friends...to have someone say something hurtful to me is just like one of my close friends saying it to me. I'm sorry if that means nothing to you. It means everything to me that you were hurt, but nothing to me that I hurt you because I didn't hurt you. You mistook my words Em. You hurt yourself. I'm sorry that you did, but I cannot control how you perceive my words. You're 100% wrong on this and on top of it, you literally lied about my post to you. You set out to make my post seem like something it wasn't. And I proved that you lied. With your own words. So who's the one who should be upset with whom here? You have NO idea how I just lifted you up with these words! I just told you the truth! And because you don't accept this as truth (that you don't know scripture well), I'm condescending to you? Emily, you yourself told everybody here that you are weak in scripture. Why is it a big deal when you're told that by me? Everything I wrote is true! You can't understand what Christianity has known for 2,000 years! That's not me speaking bad to you! Your beliefs are different from Christianity. You believe in things that are unorthodox (not Orthodox Church, but the general meaning of the word orthodox). It is just the truth. Your beliefs are based on 16th doctrines, not 1st Century doctrines. You should be proud of your religion. If you're not, then maybe, instead of getting offended by me and what I'm saying, show thyself approved. Instead of complaining about what I said, why don't you just prove me wrong? You rarely if ever post scriptures. You "allude" to them. And this isn't just me who's seen this, but others here. You can say anything you want to here. You know that. This isn't some Extremist Catholic/Protestant site. You are wasting far more text being "hurt" than defending your beliefs. None of this, I repeat none of this, is written with malice. I love you. God knows I do. You are just super touchy today. What you percieve to be me being mean spirited is just a frank conversation between friends. Don't allow yourself to get drawn into believing something that doesn't exist. In fact, I think that's exactly what's happening here...something is "working" on you. Something's got you twisted. You are reading things so wrong right now. |
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Post by Cepha on Jul 2, 2009 11:06:09 GMT -5
Okay Cepha, I am just going to say it, if you ban me...so be it. You are a mean person. You are a condenscending person. Period. You are immature and mean towards me and most others on this forum, including the Catholics.  Claim it? I proved it. You said I didn't include 1 LOL in my post to you, and I proved that I did. No claiming...just proving. LOL! That reminds me... I remember when I was debating a two guys we banned from here and they were accusing me of being strong here because this was a "Catholic" site and that's why they got banned! LOL! Duh? This site is literally 4/5's Protestant/Anti-Catholic! We're the minorities here! Well me? I'll have to catch up with you later...I have a long stint in Purgatory first! LOL! And in the immortal words of The Governor of California... "...You'll Be Bok!" LOL!  |
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Post by biblebeliever100 on Jul 2, 2009 12:12:26 GMT -5
Cepha....
I think there are some things you are forgetting. Every word of the Bible was written for us....but NOT every word was written TO us. This might be a good study for you. I will see if I can get a copy of the message and send it to you if you would like. It is amazing!
For example, the New Testament, it was not written for the Jews was it? No it is written for the Gentiles and the Church of God. And the Old Testament was written for the Jews NOT the Gentiles. God gives us CLEAR instruction of what WE need to do in the books from Romans to Philemon. These are OUR devotional and instruction books in the new testament.
There are also history books (for us to learn from the past.. not instruction for US to follow) and then there are also the prophetic books (of things to come ie how God is going to deal with Israel and the end times etc.) We cannot take the teachings from one group of people and apply it to another people get very easily confused and end up taking scripture out of context and are therefore deceived. In my church we are doing a study on "How to Study the Bible" and these were some of the points that we discusses last night. Its amazing how God works!
So every instruction in the Bible isn't for us. And God tells us that salvation is that simple. Jesus is the only way to heaven and you cannot lose your salvation. That's the sad thing. People do not understand how simple God made it for us! People over think it and do not realize that God laid everything out crystal clear. People think that there is a 'catch' somewhere...but nope He's the real deal and there isn't! That's the amazing thing!
And I was not one of the 70% growing up. My family on both paternal and maternal sides are devoutly catholic and I was raised the same way. I headed the children's music ministry, taught sunday school for years, was a eucharistic minister, reader, lead bible studies, volunteered for several things (ie going to the sick and poor, vbs, and just typical volunteer work at the church), prayed fervently, studied etc etc. So I was not one of the 70% that you are referring to. As I grew older I realized there were things that I didn't understand about the faith, so out of curiosity and the hunger for knowledge I started studying them out. Things didn't match up and didn't make sense. I learned some of the corruptness of the history of the church and studied past popes, bishops, priests, saints, and leaders. The more I studied the more things didn't line up to the Word of God. So I started searching to see where I could find my answers. This is when God started tugging on my heart. Then I learned about salvation and that works are important to show your fruit and faith but not necessary to get to heaven. Jesus was enough and ALL that we need. It is so simple. So I questioned it and was curious and the more I studied the more I learned and eventually got saved by the grace of God and have been born again. I do not consider myself any 'religion'. Religions are just names. I just consider myself to be a Bible-Believing Christian nothing more and nothing less. I thank God every day for saving me and showing me the truth and I am excited to do the will of God every day and learn more and share what I have learned with others. After my salvation I went through many trials and tribulations. I had nothing because my help and support rejected me and my choice to leave the catholic faith, no job, no car, no house, nothing, but God provided. God is AMAZING! We as people are God's church (not the building..buildings could burn down and we would still have the Church of God). It is the people who do God's work and His will not the building.
So I ask you Cephas to consider that when go and judge someone....... there is a lot more to people than you think and that is only one small fraction of something you didn't even consider before you held judgment.
And also let me know if you would like a copy of the study we have been doing. I would be more than happy to forward that onto you!
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Post by Ramon on Jul 2, 2009 13:33:29 GMT -5
For example, the New Testament, it was not written for the Jews was it? No it is written for the Gentiles and the Church of God. And the Old Testament was written for the Jews NOT the Gentiles. God gives us CLEAR instruction of what WE need to do in the books from Romans to Philemon. These are OUR devotional and instruction books in the new testament. There are also history books (for us to learn from the past.. not instruction for US to follow) and then there are also the prophetic books (of things to come ie how God is going to deal with Israel and the end times etc.) We cannot take the teachings from one group of people and apply it to another people get very easily confused and end up taking scripture out of context and are therefore deceived. In my church we are doing a study on "How to Study the Bible" and these were some of the points that we discusses last night. Its amazing how God works! So every instruction in the Bible isn't for us. I agree with you 90%. Matthew's Holy Gospel was written for the Jews. However, this does not mean that Saint Matthew Gospel is not applicable for us Christians. It just mean that when Saint Matthew wrote his Gospel, his targeted audience was Jews, which is why we find many Jewish terms, and a extensive quotation from the Old Testament. The same with the Old Testament. Yes, they written primary to the Jewish people, but what about the Wisdom books (i.e.., Psalm, Job, Proverbs, Song of Solomon, etc)? They are applicable to us as well. The book of Psalm is the prayer book of the Orthodox Church. Most of our prayers comes from the Psalter. It's the prayer gem of the Church. We use the Old Testament and the New Testament in our Orthodox services. The Old Testament and the New Testament makes up "Holy Scriptures". Yes, we place more emphasis on the New Testament, especially the Holy Gospels, but we still use the Old Testament. Yes, many instructions in the Old Testament was given by God to Israel, for instance Sabbath Keeping was given to Israel not Gentiles, and thus is no longer valid for us Christians who experience the true rest in Christ, but you can't say that the Old Testament as a whole is not applicable to New Testament Christians. The Holy Apostles and the Early Christians used the Old Testament. The Early Church Fathers used the Old Testament and the New Testament to prove many Orthodox doctrines, such as the divinity of Jesus Christ (the Holy Trinity). I always remember this phrase: "What was hidden in the Old Testament is revealed in the New Testament". In the entire Church History, we see the Old Testament being used to defend against heretical sects, such as the Gnostic, Marcionism, Arians, etc. The Fathers knew that both was Scriptures, and that the New Testament is simply revealing whats been hidden in the Old Testament. In IC.XC, Ramon |
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Post by teresahrc on Jul 2, 2009 13:47:59 GMT -5
I am so confused as to what just happened here. About 2 months ago I wrote the same thing that Cepha wrote about women being silent in 'church'. Why didn't anyone get upset when I said it? To me it didn't sound like apersonal attack at all, but rather a challenge to inconsistent private interpretation of scripture--(perhaps it was said tongue-in-cheek,but what do you expect from Cepha?)
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I always try to be so kind and state things so gently...just to be come back at with that? You've said some condenscending to me and others in the past, but this one wins.
