Matthew 16:18

[Ramon]

Jul 2, 2009 13:47:59 GMT -5 @teresahrc said:

I am so confused as to what just happened here. About 2 months ago I wrote the same thing that Cepha wrote about women being silent in 'church'. Why didn't anyone get upset when I said it?

Because you are a women. If we men said that, some of you are ready to divorce us and hang us up! LOL! ;D Many women accuse us of being "sexist"., LOL!

Jul 2, 2009 13:47:59 GMT -5 @teresahrc said:

To me it didn't sound like apersonal attack at all, but rather a challenge to inconsistent private interpretation of scripture--(perhaps it was said tongue-in-cheek,but what do you expect from Cepha?)

I know many women who gets offended what we say to them that they are not allowed to become Priests/Bishops, that they are not allowed to have authority over men or to teach in Church. In all honesty, we are not sexism. We just following what Scriptures states and what been the Tradition of the Church. Women has there place in the Church. The ancient order of deaconess is still retain in many Orthodox Churches. In the Orthodox Church, the highest place that any human being has ever reached, was achieved by a woman, not a man (The Most Holy Theotokos)!. Can you imagine that? LOL!

We have many Holy Mothers, ancient and modern, in the Orthodox Church! We honor them as Saints and Mothers of the Church. Definitively not sexism!

In IC.XC,
Ramon

[toy4mud]

Arnold Schwarzenegger didn't say "...You'll Be Bok!" he said "I'll be back."
LOL
LOL
LOL
Study your movies before you quote them.

[biblebeliever100]

I apologize Ramon... I did not mean that the Old Testament and books not written TO us are not applicable. Of course they are! Otherwise God wouldn't have given them to us and preserved them for us! They are for us to learn from and teach us about the prophecies that have been and will be filled! Every word of the Bible is important!!!!

[biblebeliever100]

I also wanted to add in a quick comment about women as well.

Women were created to be the helpmeet of the men. They are the brides of men.. just like all of us are Christ's brides (both men and women). Women are to be submissive to their husbands in order to honor them and God and to do God's will. Yes they of course have a free will and freedom of speech etc. I don't want anyone to think that I am saying that is not true. But men are called to provide for families and ultimately 'rule' the family. I know on this forum that many may take what I am saying the wrong way, but it is what it is the bible says "Women submit to your husbands."

And ultimately the responsibility is taken off of the wives when they do and put on the husbands! It's pretty cool how God works!

[cradlecathlic27]

I understand that the man is to protect the family, but we do not have to be submissive to the husband. We can work and contribute equally to the family. Men are stronger and should be the protector, and the women should keep their men happy in bed. lol And care for the children!

[biblebeliever100]

Men are called to be leaders to of the household and women are called to be their help meets. Women are called to honor their husbands and care for the children and homes as well. Women are called to SUBMIT to their husbands.

Our society is getting so messed up. Women are taking men's positions and they are suffering whether it be from health issues, mental issues or emotional issues. Women were not created to do the job of men. Men were. Women were specifically created to be men's help meet! Men were also created to be leaders and provide for their families. They were not created to do the job of women. There is a 'new breed' of men and women today which completely disturbs the order that God created. Women are attracted to women and men are to men! God did not want that! Yes He loves these people but not their decisions. Men are becoming 'too passive' while women are wanting 'more independence.' Women were created to be dependent on their husbands.

A few books that I would suggest are:
Lies Women Believe and the Truth that Sets Them Free By Nancy Leigh DeMoss
The Excellent Wife A Biblical Perspective By Martha Peace
Created to Be His Help Meet By Debi Pearl

There are TONS of books that show the biblical perspective of the place of women. I would suggest looking into it!

[teresahrc]

Bible Believer,

I totally agree with you. I'm a very traditional woman. I like to do "women's work" I will gladly submit to my husband. That is very Biblical, you are correct.

A few months ago I was talking to someone else about the subject of women being "silent in the church". The reason I was bringing it up was because of the Protestant view that "the church" doesn't mean a place but is ONLY spiritual--that it is ONLY the invisible body of believers and nothing more.
But what do you do when you read the verse that women should be "silent in the church" and "ask their husbands at home"?
That was the reason I was talking about it. I never really got an answer.

It's not meant to be a personal attack, I mean I'm a woman myself! It sounds totally different when a man says it, but when I said it no protestants gave me an answer.

teresa

[cradlecathlic27]

Im not even gunna argue this one....God made us women, and if he made us capable of doing a mans job than by golly we can do it. Not that i am lol. I know my role in my family and i dont need the Bible to tell me so! Thanks to my parents for teaching me how to be an self supporting(if need be) lady!

[teresahrc]

Ok but I'm not talking about careers and stuff. I'm not talking about scrubbing floors vs taking out the trash. If you want to be a construcion worker or something I think that's great. I don't care about gender role stereotypes and all that even though I am usually a stereotypical woman. What I'm talking about is the dignity and uniqueness of women. Not just physically but emotionally and spiritually too. We are only cheating ourselves if we want to be treated the same as men. "Womens work" is to be sisters, mothers,daughters, etc. The Bible says wives submit to their husbands (and husbands love your wives as Christ loved the church). But its all about love and respect. It has nothing to do with self gratification or domination . Men that try to "rule" their wives in the name of the Bible are really abusing their wives.

[teresahrc]

Jul 3, 2009 13:39:21 GMT -5 biblebeliever100 said:

Men are called to be leaders to of the household and women are called to be their help meets. Women are called to honor their husbands and care for the children and homes as well. Women are called to SUBMIT to their husbands.

Our society is getting so messed up. Women are taking men's positions and they are suffering whether it be from health issues, mental issues or emotional issues. Women were not created to do the job of men. Men were. Women were specifically created to be men's help meet! Men were also created to be leaders and provide for their families. They were not created to do the job of women. There is a 'new breed' of men and women today which completely disturbs the order that God created. Women are attracted to women and men are to men! God did not want that! Yes He loves these people but not their decisions. Men are becoming 'too passive' while women are wanting 'more independence.' Women were created to be dependent on their husbands.

A few books that I would suggest are:
Lies Women Believe and the Truth that Sets Them Free By Nancy Leigh DeMoss
The Excellent Wife A Biblical Perspective By Martha Peace
Created to Be His Help Meet By Debi Pearl

There are TONS of books that show the biblical perspective of the place of women. I would suggest looking into it!

. Are you a man or woman?

[teresahrc]

"the women should keep their men happy in bed. lol ". Whoa! CC don't even get me started on that one! This is where I demand equal rights. The bible doesn't say the women have to keep the men happy in bed. It says they have to keep each other happy.

[cradlecathlic27]

well....in order to keep them lol, you must keep them happy in their own bed..not someone elses.

Also agree about the trash..that is soo wes's job, i do the dishes and wash the clothes and all the other household duties...he works for now, but i will get to work as soon as i graduate this december!

[Ramon]

Jul 5, 2009 0:03:56 GMT -5 cradlecathlic27 said:

well....in order to keep them lol, you must keep them happy in their own bed..not someone elses.

Doesn't that work both ways?

In IC.XC,
Ramon

[cradlecathlic27]

well of course!

[teresahrc]

That's what I was trying to say Ramon. My man better keep me happy too. The Bible says do not deprive each other. It makes no distinction between the two.

[Cepha]

Jul 2, 2009 12:12:26 GMT -5 biblebeliever100 said:

Cepha....

I think there are some things you are forgetting. Every word of the Bible was written for us....but NOT every word was written TO us. This might be a good study for you. I will see if I can get a copy of the message and send it to you if you would like. It is amazing!

Actually, I'm the strongest proponent of that.

You've no idea how many times I tell people that not everything in scripture is for us individually, that some of what was written was only geared towards The Apostles.

For example, Satan lied.

Just because his words are in scripture, are they the word of God?

No.

They are his lies.



Besides, The Word of God is not contained in a book, but on our hearts. Books can and have been edited. They cannot be trusted. They are inanimate objects.

And I was not one of the 70% growing up. My family on both paternal and maternal sides are devoutly catholic and I was raised the same way. I headed the children's music ministry, taught sunday school for years, was a eucharistic minister, reader, lead bible studies, volunteered for several things (ie going to the sick and poor, vbs, and just typical volunteer work at the church), prayed fervently, studied etc etc. So I was not one of the 70% that you are referring to.

You think that by your activities, you can deem yourself a "devout" Catholic, but if you really were devout, you'd still be a Catholic.

I'm not denying that God didn't keep you in The Catholic Church. Maybe you were a better Christian in a different Church. You seem to decide your Christianity by your church affiliation or lack thereof.

A good Christian is going to be a good Christian regardless of what church he belongs to or doesn't belong to.



You are right...you are not one of those 70%. You're not even 1% of Catholicism because you have renounced your faith "in" universal Christianity.

I've done nothing near what you've done as far as works in The Church go, but I do know more about Catholicism than you.

See, I "used" to be like you.
Where you are, I was already there.
But, I got called back to The Flock.

For whatever reason, God didn't call you back to The Flock.
You got called (whether by God or not and I won't deny either),
to another flock which is fine by me because you'll be wherever God wants you to be.

As I grew older I realized there were things that I didn't understand about the faith, so out of curiosity and the hunger for knowledge I started studying them out. Things didn't match up and didn't make sense. I learned some of the corruptness of the history of the church and studied past popes, bishops, priests, saints, and leaders. The more I studied the more things didn't line up to the Word of God. So I started searching to see where I could find my answers. This is when God started tugging on my heart. Then I learned about salvation and that works are important to show your fruit and faith but not necessary to get to heaven.

See that? I was 100% correct about you.

You were improperly Catechized.

You should've known about Salvation as a Catholic, but you did (especially since it was The Catholic Church that revealed The Doctrine of Salvation to The World).



And, my experience was the complete opposite of yours.

I was an Anti-Catholic and God tugged me "to" The Catholic Church. Mark my words, you won't find anyone here more Anti-Catholic than I used to be, but then, I picked up my Bible and began to read it without prejudice.

Matthew 16:18 set me straight.

I reverted back to Christianity, then I had to go to The Church mentioned in The Bible (remember, The Church existed "before" The Holy Bible...in fact, it created The Holy Bible).

Jesus was enough and ALL that we need. It is so simple.

Yes...Jesus and everything that Jesus prescribed.

I can't be "all about Jesus" then ignore what He taught or did or established.

In my case, I am a Catholic "because" I reverted back to Christianity first.

So I questioned it and was curious and the more I studied the more I learned and eventually got saved by the grace of God and have been born again. I do not consider myself any 'religion'. Religions are just names. I just consider myself to be a Bible-Believing Christian nothing more and nothing less.

Me too...a Catholic "has to" believe in The Bible in order to be a Christian. It is The Bible that brings us "to" The Church.

God doesn't call all Christians to His Church. He might call some to other churches that He started (rather directly or indirectly). We don't know that.

But Catholics know that He did start The Catholic Church.

I had nothing because my help and support rejected me and my choice to leave the catholic faith, no job, no car, no house, nothing, but God provided. God is AMAZING! We as people are God's church (not the building..buildings could burn down and we would still have the Church of God). It is the people who do God's work and His will not the building.

Well, Catholics (again) are greedy for God.

We want all the definitions of The Church.

We want the spiritual body, the temple, the altar, the tabernacle...we don't pick and choose what parts of The Church we personally accept or deny. We have no choice. We have to accept all of it. Not just one or two definitions...but all that apply biblically.

That same building that some choose to discount or delete from their worship, Jesus defended against The Money Changers in The Bible calling it "His Father's House" (not "His Father's spiritual body of believers or group of people").

That is, "if" you are following what The Bible teaches.



And remember, even Jesus called The Altar holy.
To God, some things are holy (physical things, we are not the altar).

He even compares our bodies (physical things) to His House (The/A Temple). That glorifies not our bodies, but The Temple.

So I ask you Cephas to consider that when go and judge someone....... there is a lot more to people than you think and that is only one small fraction of something you didn't even consider before you held judgment.

That's precisely why I "don't" judge.

You won't find judgement in my posts.

In fact, I'm quite fond of quoting Matthew 7 all day to people who do judge.

And also let me know if you would like a copy of the study we have been doing. I would be more than happy to forward that onto you!

Sure!

Matter of fact, why don't you post it here?

;D

[Cepha]

Jul 2, 2009 13:47:59 GMT -5 @teresahrc said:

I am so confused as to what just happened here. About 2 months ago I wrote the same thing that Cepha wrote about women being silent in 'church'. Why didn't anyone get upset when I said it? To me it didn't sound like apersonal attack at all, but rather a challenge to inconsistent private interpretation of scripture--(perhaps it was said tongue-in-cheek,but what do you expect from Cepha?)

Plain and simple: If a person believes that The Church is ONLY the believers themselves, then it's only right for women to NEVER talk about scripture because they are always "in church" if they are the church, right?

And as we know, the Bible says that women are to remain silent "in" church and not teach, right?

So, if they are the church, then when it comes to teaching or talking about scripture, they are supposed to always be silent, right?

That is, "if" one takes the Bible literally, right?

[Cepha]

Jul 2, 2009 13:57:02 GMT -5 Ramon said:

Jul 2, 2009 13:47:59 GMT -5 @teresahrc said:

I am so confused as to what just happened here. About 2 months ago I wrote the same thing that Cepha wrote about women being silent in 'church'. Why didn't anyone get upset when I said it?

Because you are a women. If we men said that, some of you are ready to divorce us and hang us up! LOL! ;D Many women accuse us of being "sexist"., LOL!

Jul 2, 2009 13:47:59 GMT -5 @teresahrc said:

To me it didn't sound like apersonal attack at all, but rather a challenge to inconsistent private interpretation of scripture--(perhaps it was said tongue-in-cheek,but what do you expect from Cepha?)

I know many women who gets offended what we say to them that they are not allowed to become Priests/Bishops, that they are not allowed to have authority over men or to teach in Church. In all honesty, we are not sexism. We just following what Scriptures states and what been the Tradition of the Church. Women has there place in the Church. The ancient order of deaconess is still retain in many Orthodox Churches. In the Orthodox Church, the highest place that any human being has ever reached, was achieved by a woman, not a man (The Most Holy Theotokos)!. Can you imagine that? LOL!

We have many Holy Mothers, ancient and modern, in the Orthodox Church! We honor them as Saints and Mothers of the Church. Definitively not sexism!

In IC.XC,
Ramon

Amazing hey Ramon?

We stick to The Scripture and do not allow women to become Priests, and we're called sexists.

Yet, we have more Saints that are women than men and we get slammed for loving Jesus' mother.

[Cepha]

Jul 2, 2009 14:22:23 GMT -5 biblebeliever100 said:

I also wanted to add in a quick comment about women as well.

Women were created to be the helpmeet of the men. They are the brides of men.. just like all of us are Christ's brides (both men and women). Women are to be submissive to their husbands in order to honor them and God and to do God's will. Yes they of course have a free will and freedom of speech etc. I don't want anyone to think that I am saying that is not true. But men are called to provide for families and ultimately 'rule' the family. I know on this forum that many may take what I am saying the wrong way, but it is what it is the bible says "Women submit to your husbands."

And ultimately the responsibility is taken off of the wives when they do and put on the husbands! It's pretty cool how God works!

To me, God's order of creation shows how He worked.

Everything He created got better.

First, The Earth, then man, then woman, then Jesus.

Women come later on in the order making them better especially since they are mothers (and through that, they are forigiven for bringing sin into the world to man).

Women are the coolest!

I love them!

[Cepha]

Jul 2, 2009 14:04:15 GMT -5 toy4mud said:

Arnold Schwarzenegger didn't say "...You'll Be Bok!" he said "I'll be back."
LOL
LOL
LOL
Study your movies before you quote them.

Uh...yeah.

He did.





Don't you mean:

"LOL
LOL
LOL
I need to know what I'm talking about before I attempt to correct someone talking about The Governor of California and not a character he played!"?