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Post by Cepha on Mar 29, 2009 17:39:02 GMT -5
Is Salvation "conditional"?
Or is it "free"?
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Post by emily445455 on Mar 29, 2009 20:19:08 GMT -5
Nope.
Yup.
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Post by Cepha on Mar 30, 2009 0:11:51 GMT -5
So then, you'd agree that a person doesn't have to meet the "condition" of having to believe in Jesus right? They're saved whether they have faith or not then, right? |
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Post by emily445455 on Mar 30, 2009 11:07:25 GMT -5
Salvation is a free gift, but people have to take it to have it. I got a free gift in my mail box the other day, but I left it in there.
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Post by teresahrc on Mar 30, 2009 16:39:17 GMT -5
"Come, all you who are thirsty,
come to the waters;
and you who have no money,
come, buy and eat!
Come, buy wine and milk
without money and without cost.
2 Why spend money on what is not bread,
and your labor on what does not satisfy?
Listen, listen to me, and eat what is good,
and your soul will delight in the richest of fare.
3 Give ear and come to me;
hear me, that your soul may live.
I will make an everlasting covenant with you,
my faithful love promised to David.
(Isaiah 55)
17 The Spirit and the bride say, "Come!" And let those who hear say, "Come!" Let those who are thirsty come; and let all who wish take the free gift of the water of life. (Revelation 22)
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Post by Cepha on Mar 30, 2009 17:09:11 GMT -5
Salvation is a free gift, but people have to take it to have it. I got a free gift in my mail box the other day, but I left it in there. So, if the person doesn't accept the gift, they aren't saved? Then it's conditional, right? A person can only be saved "if" they accept Jesus' gift, right? |
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Post by emily445455 on Mar 30, 2009 19:34:02 GMT -5
It's available to everyone, I don't think that makes it conditional. God's love is unconditional, we are the ones that condition our Salvation by not accepting it.
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Post by asheseesyou on Mar 30, 2009 20:49:06 GMT -5
Salvation is a free gift, but people have to take it to have it. I got a free gift in my mail box the other day, but I left it in there. Then that is a condition. |
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Post by ezekiel33 on Mar 30, 2009 21:00:17 GMT -5
Sounds like a condition to me.
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Post by Cepha on Mar 30, 2009 21:04:38 GMT -5
It's available to everyone, I don't think that makes it conditional. God's love is unconditional, we are the ones that condition our Salvation by not accepting it. Availability is not an option with a gift. When Jesus died, He didn't die only for those who accepted Him, but for alllll mankind forever. He payed the price for "original sin", but not for eternal sin. We have to pay the price for eternal sin (those sins committed after we are born). Jesus died for Christians, Jews, Muslims, Satanists, Atheists...because that is what The Bible says when it says He died for all mankind. He gave mankind the gift. So we are all delivered from original sin. The sin we are judged for is the sin that we committ (not the sin that was cast upon us because of Adam & Eve). That is why we must repent of ouf sins "after" we convert to Christianity.  |
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Post by ezekiel33 on Mar 30, 2009 21:14:08 GMT -5
It's available to everyone, I don't think that makes it conditional. God's love is unconditional, we are the ones that condition our Salvation by not accepting it. Availability is not an option with a gift. When Jesus died, He didn't die only for those who accepted Him, but for alllll mankind forever. He payed the price for "original sin", but not for eternal sin. We have to pay the price for eternal sin (those sins committed after we are born). Jesus died for Christians, Jews, Muslims, Satanists, Atheists...because that is what The Bible says when it says He died for all mankind. He gave mankind the gift. So we are all delivered from original sin. The sin we are judged for is the sin that we committ (not the sin that was cast upon us because of Adam & Eve). That is why we must repent of ouf sins "after" we convert to Christianity. I can accept this, but you were saying in another thread that people can be saved without repenting or coming to faith in Christ. What was that about? |
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Post by emily445455 on Mar 30, 2009 21:39:05 GMT -5
IMO accepting Christ and repentance go hand-in-hand. If one isn't truely sorry for their sins (repentance), then they can't accept Christ (Salvation).
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Post by Cepha on Mar 30, 2009 23:03:04 GMT -5
IMO accepting Christ and repentance go hand-in-hand. If one isn't truely sorry for their sins (repentance), then they can't accept Christ (Salvation). Then you agree that Salvation is conditional based upon a person having to accept Jesus? And repenting? That's two conditions so far, right? Do you believe that without these conditions being met, one can't be saved? |
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Post by Cepha on Mar 30, 2009 23:04:16 GMT -5
I can accept this, but you were saying in another thread that people can be saved without repenting or coming to faith in Christ. What was that about? That applies to non-Christians. For example, if a Hindu child of 1 1/2 years old dies, where does he go? Heaven? Or Hell? |
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Post by emily445455 on Mar 31, 2009 8:38:42 GMT -5
A person has to accept Jesus to be Saved, yes. I do not see this as a condition. We seperate ourselves from God by our sin...we are the ones who make a condition, a barrier, between us and God...not Him, He keeps all of His promises perfectly.
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Post by Cepha on Mar 31, 2009 9:03:29 GMT -5
A person has to accept Jesus to be Saved, yes. I do not see this as a condition. We seperate ourselves from God by our sin...we are the ones who make a condition, a barrier, between us and God...not Him, He keeps all of His promises perfectly. But "that's" the definition of a condition...having to do something in order to get something back. If a person "has to" accept Christ in order to be saved, then in your own words, Salvation IS conditional. The condition is placed by the giver (not the receiver). And, how can "we" make it conditional when it is He is the one offering the gift? We have no say on what we have to pay back for that gift. condition (Dictionary.com) a circumstance indispensable to some result; prerequisite; that on which something else is contingent: conditions of acceptance. the event upon which this stipulation depends. something demanded as an essential part of an agreement; provision; stipulation: He accepted on one condition. on or upon condition that, with the promise or provision that; provided that; if: She accepted the position on condition that there would be opportunity for advancement. |
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Post by ezekiel33 on Mar 31, 2009 9:55:34 GMT -5
A person has to accept Jesus to be Saved, yes. I do not see this as a condition. We seperate ourselves from God by our sin...we are the ones who make a condition, a barrier, between us and God...not Him, He keeps all of His promises perfectly. If you have to do anything to be saved that is a condition, how can you not see that it is. If you have to accept the free gift to receive it, then ''accepting it'' is the condition. |
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Post by ezekiel33 on Mar 31, 2009 9:56:46 GMT -5
I can accept this, but you were saying in another thread that people can be saved without repenting or coming to faith in Christ. What was that about? That applies to non-Christians. For example, if a Hindu child of 1 1/2 years old dies, where does he go? Heaven? Or Hell? I agree about the original sin part, so the 1 1/2 years old hindu would go to heaven, but the 20 year old hindu who has sinned and not repented would not. |
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Post by emily445455 on Mar 31, 2009 12:33:18 GMT -5
Fine, the condition is we have to accept Christ. The word "condition" makes it seem like God's fault...when it is not.
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Post by Cepha on Mar 31, 2009 13:14:33 GMT -5
A person has to accept Jesus to be Saved, yes. I do not see this as a condition. We seperate ourselves from God by our sin...we are the ones who make a condition, a barrier, between us and God...not Him, He keeps all of His promises perfectly. If you have to do anything to be saved that is a condition, how can you not see that it is. If you have to accept the free gift to receive it, then ''accepting it'' is the condition. That's how I see it too. It is literally a condition to "have to" do something. That means that if a person wants to be saved, they must meet that requirement. That takes an action on their behalf. Thus, Salvation is conditional. |
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