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Post by Cepha on Aug 7, 2008 13:35:50 GMT -5
What cepha is saying is deception, the two were Jews who had the law and Gentile who were a law unto themselves, if the Jew kept the law they ( under the old covenant could have been saved) and the Gentile that had never received any law from God could have been saved ( under the old covenant) by keeping the law of his conscience. . If you're referring to Romans 2, it is clearly a comparison of those who "talk" about living God's will as opposed to those who "live" God's will. They didnt' have a Bible back then, so they couldn't have been talking about The New Testament as The Law. And I don't see any OT/NT references in it.  Where'd you pull that out of? You're introducing something into Romans 2 that just isn't there. So...scripture is contradicting scripture? And, what does this have to do with non-Believers being saved? The Word of God is written on every man's heart (not just on The Jew's hearts). This includes Muslims, Buddhists, Atheists. It's not in "saying" things that one is saved, but in what they do. (Like when Jesus judged The Goats and The Sheeps and condemned "Believers" to Hell). Proof? Jesus said that to be like The Good Samaritan (without saying that you had to believe in Him) would gain you entry into The Kingdom of Heaven. Isn't "that" another way? |
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Post by teresahrc on Aug 7, 2008 13:37:13 GMT -5
What about the Rich man and Lazarus?
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Post by teresahrc on Aug 7, 2008 13:40:21 GMT -5
 1 Timothy 5: 19 Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses.  Jude 1:9 • But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!"
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Post by Cepha on Aug 7, 2008 13:41:18 GMT -5
Give passage and verse that says the good samaritan went to heaven. Luke 10:25-37 25 And behold, a certain lawyer stood up and made trial of him, saying, Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?...
...(The whole passage)...
...36 Which of these three, thinkest thou, proved neighbor unto him that fell among the robbers?
37 And he said, He that showed mercy on him. And Jesus said unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.So, Jesus said that whoever does what The Good Samaritan did, inherited eternal life. Now, do you agree with what Jesus said or not? If you don't, then you are saying that Jesus used an unsaved person to teach a person how to be saved and that The Good Samaritan is condemned to eternal damnation even though he did what Jesus taught gets one into heaven. Which one is it going to be?  |
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Post by teresahrc on Aug 7, 2008 13:42:51 GMT -5
"Let God be true, and every man a liar"
Romans 3:4
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Post by teresahrc on Aug 7, 2008 13:46:52 GMT -5
So are you saying that the OT people went to heaven apart from the sacrifice of Jesus? I say they did go to heaven because of the sacrifice of Jesus, even if they didn't know about it.
"8All inhabitants of the earth will worship the beast—all whose names have not been written in the book of life belonging to the Lamb that was slain from the creation of the world"
(Rev. 13)
Isn't God outside of time? How is it that Rev. says the Lamb "was slain from the creation of the world"?
teresa
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Post by teresahrc on Aug 7, 2008 13:50:03 GMT -5
Now you are changing things, watchman. First we were talking about salvation and receiving Christ, now you are talking about denying Him. There is a difference brother.
I agree on that one. If anyone knows who Jesus really is, and yet denies Him the Bible says they will perish.
But let's stick with salvation for now, and not condemnation.
teresa
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Post by Cepha on Aug 7, 2008 13:54:12 GMT -5
I don't believe anyone will get to the Father "outside of Jesus"! The reason we are freed from original sin is because of Jesus' sacrifice...that is what reconciled us to Him. After that, we have to live His will. Becomming a Christian doesn't guarantee one Heaven. And, when Jesus died, He died for all of man's original sin (not just for Christians who couldn't be saved "before" Jesus died). Exactly, through Jesus' sacrificial offering. I think that this quote shuts down the topic and does it well.  teresa |
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Post by teresahrc on Aug 7, 2008 13:56:55 GMT -5
Cepha? You signed your post "teresa"! I hope that was an accident. hehe
yeah, i'm done here, besides, this post was advertised as a "debate free zone" LOL yeah right a debate free zone on this website! Not!
teresa
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Post by teresahrc on Aug 7, 2008 13:58:35 GMT -5
"This convo started when cepha said muslim can get saved outside of Christ if they do not acknowledge him as Christ then they have indeed denied him. "
Yeah, I don't think he was talking about a Muslim that has heard the gopsel. You yourself said it may be possible for someone to be saved if they haven't heard the gospel. Most muslims have not heard the gospel!
teresa
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Post by teresahrc on Aug 7, 2008 14:00:53 GMT -5
Where did Cepha go?
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Post by Cepha on Aug 7, 2008 14:11:48 GMT -5
1 Timothy 5: 19 Do not entertain an accusation against an elder unless it is brought by two or three witnesses. Jude 1:9 • But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not dare to bring a slanderous accusation against him, but said, "The Lord rebuke you!" Uh, I think The Bible meant 3 living witnesses earth when it said that.  Again, you list a quote with some clever editing of The Word of God injecting your own word to change it's meaning...here is what The Bible "literally" said: John 14 5 Thomas saith unto him, Lord, we know not whither thou goest; how know we the way?
6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life: no one cometh unto the Father, but by me.
7 If ye had known me, ye would have known my Father also: from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. Now, "what" version of The Bible are you using again? Peter is saying that no other person can save. Nobody ever denied that only Jesus saves. What is being said here is that a person who doesn't believe in Jesus but lives God's will can be saved...at least, that's what Jesus said with regards to The Good Samaritan (a non-believer who did what it took to get into The Kingdom of Heaven). Wow. Slander. I never denied that Jesus is the Annointed One (which is what Christ literally means). Now, unless you can quote me actually saying this, you are the one who is lieing. I expect your proof or apology for saying that I denied that Jesus is the Annointed One in your next post. Otherwise, you completely prove that you are "not" doing God's will, but are doing the will of he too that deceives and is the father of lies. |
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Post by Cepha on Aug 7, 2008 14:13:46 GMT -5
What about the Rich man and Lazarus? well if you are asking how could of Lazarus get to heaven with out accepting Chist the answer is simple. #1 Lazarus went to paradise or '' Abraham's bossom'' not heaven and #2 he died b4 Jesus' sacrifice. He lived under the Old covenant, not the new covenant that was confirmed by the body and blood of Christ. Look at that... Protestants now have their own Purgatory!  |
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Post by Cepha on Aug 7, 2008 14:15:18 GMT -5
"Let God be true, and every man a liar" Romans 3:4 Absolutely and God says Jesus is the only way, and that all that deny him will perish. Jesus is the only way to what? |
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Post by Cepha on Aug 7, 2008 14:16:50 GMT -5
There was no one saved under the New covenant when Jesus told that story because He had yet to Die and rise again. Hold on, didn't you say that if someone believed in Jesus died before He died, they were automatically saved? |
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Post by Cepha on Aug 7, 2008 14:18:16 GMT -5
And... Now, do you agree with what Jesus said or not?
That by being a good neighbor as He described it in that parable, that this is the way to gain entry into The Kingdom of Heaven?
Yes or no?
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Post by Cepha on Aug 7, 2008 14:25:00 GMT -5
Now you are changing things, watchman. First we were talking about salvation and receiving Christ, now you are talking about denying Him. There is a difference brother. I agree on that one. If anyone knows who Jesus really is, and yet denies Him the Bible says they will perish. But let's stick with salvation for now, and not condemnation. teresa Remember that post I put up in May about how they, when cornered, revert to one ot their tactics of changing the subject to something that wasn't being discussed in the first place? That's why I put up that post, because that's their M.O.. They are sooooo predictable. After a while, you have all the answers in your head ready for them like for Mary Saving, The Pedophile Priests, The Anti-Popes, yada, yada, yada...and it's like playing ping pong. Eventually, they get tired of getting answers, curse and insult you, proclaim this magnificent victory, then quit. There are three things you can count on...death, taxes and Anti-Catholics who can't prove what they believe and prove that their "not" Christians in their behavior (the insulting and false allegations and their slander). ;D |
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Post by Cepha on Aug 7, 2008 14:27:48 GMT -5
Now you are changing things, watchman. First we were talking about salvation and receiving Christ, now you are talking about denying Him. There is a difference brother. I agree on that one. If anyone knows who Jesus really is, and yet denies Him the Bible says they will perish. But let's stick with salvation for now, and not condemnation. teresa This convo started when cepha said muslim can get saved outside of Christ if they do not acknowledge him as Christ then they have indeed denied him. Don't just say I said it...quote me. |
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Post by Cepha on Aug 7, 2008 14:28:40 GMT -5
;D Cepha? You signed your post "teresa"! I hope that was an accident. hehe yeah, i'm done here, besides, this post was advertised as a "debate free zone" LOL yeah right a debate free zone on this website! Not! teresa Yeah, I was responding to your post and didn't delete the last word. Sorry. |
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Post by Cepha on Aug 7, 2008 14:30:49 GMT -5
Look at that... Protestants now have their own Purgatory! I have already told I believe the bible not protestant teaching, If you want to call it ''purgatory then you being catholic do not know what purgatory is. Purgatory is a place of refinement and punishment, paradise was a paradise. You're a Protestant. You believe in a waiting place outside of Heaven for people bound for Heaven. That's a Purgatory! ;D |
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Where'd you pull that out of? You're introducing something into Romans 2 that just isn't there. 
